Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ divine

[Hill Top]

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
"Do you view the Lord Jesus Christ as God?"

I view the Lord Jesus Christ as the Word, and the Son of God.
It was the Word, pre-flesh, that was God.

Do you believe that the Word ceased being God when the Word became flesh?

Yes, as the Word had to lay aside very much to be born of a woman and walk as we walk.

[Hill Top]

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
"Dake would likely conclude that you are most likely conflating verses about baptism by the Spirit into Christ with the ceremony of water baptism. For Dake, the two baptisms were different baptisms. Not the same baptism."

I feel they are different baptisms; the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins done by men for men.
And the Baptism of the Holy Spirt being done by God for men.

How do you define "the Baptism of the Holy Spirit"?

It is the gift of the Holy Ghost, promised by Peter on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38, and the Comforter promised by Jesus in John 14-15- and 16.
It is our "immersion" by/into the Spirit of God.

Some see a difference between the baptism "of" versus the baptism "with" the Spirit.

I see them as the same thing.

[Hill Top]

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
"Dake would likely conclude that you are most likely conflating verses about baptism by the Spirit into Christ with the ceremony of water baptism. For Dake, the two baptisms were different baptisms. Not the same baptism."

I feel they are different baptisms; the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins done by men for men.
And the Baptism of the Holy Spirt being done by God for men.

Dake taught that there are seven baptisms in scripture and three baptisms for believers:

Finis Jennings Dake wrote:
"Seven Baptisms in Scripture:
"1. John’s baptism in water (Mt. 3; Mk. 1; Lk. 3; 7:29–30; Jn. 1:31–33; 3:23–26; 10:40; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 19:3)
"2. Christ’s baptism in water (Jn. 3:22; 4:1–2)
"3. Baptism in suffering (Lk. 12:50)
"4. Baptism in the cloud and in the sea (1Cor. 10:2)
"5. Christian baptism in water (Mt. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38–41; 8:12–16, 36–38; 9:18; 10:47–48; 16:15, 33; 18:8; 19:5; 22:16; 1Cor. 1:13–17; 1Pet. 3:21)
"6. Baptism into Christ and into His body (Rom. 6:3–7; 1Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12)
"7. Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Mt. 3:11, 14; 20:22–23; Mk. 1:8; 10:38–39; Lk. 3:16; Jn. 1:33; 7:37–39; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 19:2–3)

"Three Baptisms for Believers:
"1. Into Christ or into His body at repentance and the new birth (pt. , above). Called “one baptism” (Eph. 4:5), because it is the only baptism that saves the soul and brings into the body of Christ.
"2. Water baptism after one is saved (pt. , above and note, ).
"3. Spirit baptism, the enduement of power for service. It can take place before water baptism (Acts 10:44–48) or after it (Acts 1:4–8; 2:1–11; 8:12–21; 19:1–7).

"The Holy Spirit is the agent to baptize into Christ and into His body (1Cor. 12:13); Christ is the agent to baptize in the Holy Spirit (Mt. 3:11; Jn. 1:31–33); and the minister is the agent to baptize into water (Mt. 28:19)."
--- Finis Jennings Dake, The Dake Annotated Reference Bible (Dake Publishing, 1997), Mt 3:6.

Thanks for his info.
I do not agree with all of it.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
"Do you believe that the Word ceased being God when the Word became flesh?"

Yes, as the Word had to lay aside very much to be born of a woman and walk as we walk.

Interesting.

Do you also believe that He is not God now?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I view the Holy Ghost as an appendage of God.
A part of God that can be used to accomplish God's will in or for us.

So, not a person, right?

[Hill Top]

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
"Do you believe that the Word ceased being God when the Word became flesh?"

Yes, as the Word had to lay aside very much to be born of a woman and walk as we walk.

Interesting.

Do you also believe that He is not God now?

No, but I believe Jesus and God will again be one in the future (just as the Word and God once were one), as it is written in 1 Cor 15:27-28..."For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

[Hill Top]

I view the Holy Ghost as an appendage of God.
A part of God that can be used to accomplish God's will in or for us.

So, not a person, right?

Correct, as spirits are spirits.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Looks like we lost a few replies to the void of cyberspace.

That said, where would you disagree with the following?

Quoted from https://www.ltcbr.com/beliefs
----- ----- -----
GOD
There is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). He is the creator of heaven and earth, and of all living beings. He has revealed Himself to humanity as the Father (Creator), in the son (Savior), and as the Holy Ghost (indwelling Spirit).



THE FATHER
God is a Spirit (John 4:24). He is the Eternal One, the Creator of all things, and the Father of all humanity by creation. He is the First and the Last, and beside Him there is no God (Isaiah 44:6).There was no God formed before Him; neither shall be there any after Him (Isaiah 43:10).



THE SON
Jesus is the Son of God according to the flesh (Romans 1:3) and the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matthew 1:23). Jesus is the Christ (Matthew 16:16); the creator of all things (Colossians 1:16-17); God with us (Matthew 1:23); God made flesh (John 1:1-14); God manifested in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16);He which was, which is, and which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:8);the mighty God, everlasting Father, and Prince of peace (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus Himself testified of His identity as God when He said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-11) and "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).It took shedding of blood for the remission of the sins of the world (Hebrews 9:22), but God the Father was a Spirit and had no blood to shed. Thus He prepared a body of flesh and blood (Hebrews 10:5)and came to earth as a man in order to save us, for in Isaiah 43:11 He said, "Beside me there is no Saviour." When He came in flesh the angels sang, "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:11).



THE HOLY GHOST
The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead, but rather the Spirit of God (the Creator), the Spirit of the resurrected Christ. The Holy Ghost comes to dwell in the hearts and lives of everyone who believes and obeys the gospel, as the comforter, Sustainer, and keeper (John 14:16-26; Romans 8:9-11).

[Hill Top]

Looks like we lost a few replies to the void of cyberspace.

That said, where would you disagree with the following?

Quoted from https://www.ltcbr.com/beliefs
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
GOD
There is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). He is the creator of heaven and earth, and of all living beings. He has revealed Himself to humanity as the Father (Creator), in the son (Savior), and as the Holy Ghost (indwelling Spirit).
THE FATHER
God is a Spirit (John 4:24). He is the Eternal One, the Creator of all things, and the Father of all humanity by creation. He is the First and the Last, and beside Him there is no God (Isaiah 44:6).There was no God formed before Him; neither shall be there any after Him (Isaiah 43:10).
THE SON
Jesus is the Son of God according to the flesh (Romans 1:3) and the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matthew 1:23). Jesus is the Christ (Matthew 16:16); the creator of all things (Colossians 1:16-17); God with us (Matthew 1:23); God made flesh (John 1:1-14); God manifested in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16);He which was, which is, and which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:8);the mighty God, everlasting Father, and Prince of peace (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus Himself testified of His identity as God when He said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-11) and "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).It took shedding of blood for the remission of the sins of the world (Hebrews 9:22), but God the Father was a Spirit and had no blood to shed. Thus He prepared a body of flesh and blood (Hebrews 10:5)and came to earth as a man in order to save us, for in Isaiah 43:11 He said, "Beside me there is no Saviour." When He came in flesh the angels sang, "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord" (Luke 2:11).
THE HOLY GHOST
The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead, but rather the Spirit of God (the Creator), the Spirit of the resurrected Christ. The Holy Ghost comes to dwell in the hearts and lives of everyone who believes and obeys the gospel, as the comforter, Sustainer, and keeper (John 14:16-26; Romans 8:9-11).

When I see these kinds of breakdowns, I am always puzzled by the ommission of anything concerning the Word.
Several of the attributes assigned to the Son should be assigned to the Word.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

When I see these kinds of breakdowns, I am always puzzled by the ommission of anything concerning the Word.
Several of the attributes assigned to the Son should be assigned to the Word.

So, the Son is NOT the Word and the Word is NOT the Son?

And, the Son is NOT God, but the Word is God?

Sonship always refers to humanity? Never to deity?