Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ What do you think?

[Grandfather]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

[victoryword]

Tim Keller idea of justification is so unbiblical and off the mark that it is a wonder that anyone even reads that drivel.

Keller says:
"“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous."

The Bible says:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Pet. 2:24)

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7)

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10)

[Justaned]

I believe this is true. Before I was saved and people tried to tell me I was a sinner I looked at them and chuckled because in most cases the way I saw it at the time was if I was a sinner then most everyone I knew was even a bigger sinner.

It wasn't until the Holy Ghost convicted me of my sin that I began to believe I was indeed a sinner in need of salvation. Once I got saved one by one the Holy Spirit revealed to me things that I was now be ashamed of, had no excuse for and needed to repent of. That process continues in me as I think back to what a real stinker I was in my earlier days.

As God reveals our weaknesses our faults and things that hold us back from having a closer walk with Him, we grow both in wisdom and holiness. If we listen and learn and change.

[Justaned]

Tim Keller idea of justification is so unbiblical and off the mark that it is a wonder that anyone even reads that drivel.

Keller says:
"“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous."

The Bible says:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Pet. 2:24)

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7)

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10)

Victorywood
Then you don't see a walk of sanctification I assume you believe it happens instantly and every fault every sin is instantly removed from us?
To me righteousness is a process. We are made holy and acceptable to God immediately but in our own life things are revealed and refined out of us over time it is a process.

[bibleman]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

Sounds like Tim needs to get himself a Bible and read it!

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe,..."

This person has NOT received salvation at all they are still sinning and "more wicked" according to Tim.

So if salvation makes you MORE OF A SINNER then why get saved at all!

[victoryword]

Tim Keller idea of justification is so unbiblical and off the mark that it is a wonder that anyone even reads that drivel.

Keller says:
"“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous."

The Bible says:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Pet. 2:24)

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7)

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10)

Victorywood
Then you don't see a walk of sanctification I assume you believe it happens instantly and every fault every sin is instantly removed from us?
To me righteousness is a process. We are made holy and acceptable to God immediately but in our own life things are revealed and refined out of us over time it is a process.

Justanwood

Even if what you are saying is true, Keller said NOTHING about a process. He says "Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning". For ME, the Bible overrides you and Keller's personal beliefs on this subject no matter how philosophically profound they may appear to be.

[Grandfather]

Wow, we have some people that are perfect and never sin.

[Grandfather]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

Sounds like Tim needs to get himself a Bible and read it!

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe,..."

This person has NOT received salvation at all they are still sinning and "more wicked" according to Tim.

So if salvation makes you MORE OF A SINNER then why get saved at all!

Hmmm, that is not what I understand him to be saying. As I understand what he is saying is that because of salvation we are accepted and because of that acceptance we can lift the veil of deception and see how truly horrid our sin was.

[Grandfather]

Tim Keller idea of justification is so unbiblical and off the mark that it is a wonder that anyone even reads that drivel.

Keller says:
"“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous."

The Bible says:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Pet. 2:24)

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7)

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10)

Hmmm, does this mean if a sinner does a righteous act that they become righteous? Clearly is says "he that does righteousness is righteous. I mean we are taking this literally correct?

[Justaned]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

Sounds like Tim needs to get himself a Bible and read it!

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe,..."

This person has NOT received salvation at all they are still sinning and "more wicked" according to Tim.

So if salvation makes you MORE OF A SINNER then why get saved at all!

Hmmm, that is not what I understand him to be saying. As I understand what he is saying is that because of salvation we are accepted and because of that acceptance we can lift the veil of deception and see how truly horrid our sin was.

That is how I read it too. I wonder if people are filtering this through a he ain't WOF therefore he must be wrong filter.