Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Thought Provoking OSAS

[Reuben]

John 10:29 (KJV)
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The above Scripture is the favorite launching pad for the OSAS folks. I am currently reading Luke 15 and thought of some interesting points.

Luke 15:4 (KJV)
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:7 (KJV)
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:8 (KJV)
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

Of course we know what happened to the Prodigal son. However, it appears by the reading that these sheep, coins, and son, were all in the fold, treasure, and house, at one time but became separated and lost. All, needed found again. Just thought it was interesting...

[Justaned]

What happens if you apply election to those statements. If the corollaries were talking of pre elected people then the verses would also be true without having anyone lose their salvation.

Just saying you can read these verse multiple ways without doing violence to them.

End result is the same Jesus wants those the Father has given Him saved.

[branham1965]

Preach on Reverend.

John 10:29 (KJV)
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The above Scripture is the favorite launching pad for the OSAS folks. I am currently reading Luke 15 and thought of some interesting points.

Luke 15:4 (KJV)
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:7 (KJV)
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:8 (KJV)
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

Of course we know what happened to the Prodigal son. However, it appears by the reading that these sheep, coins, and son, were all in the fold, treasure, and house, at one time but became separated and lost. All, needed found again. Just thought it was interesting...

[victoryword]

John 10:29 (KJV)
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The above Scripture is the favorite launching pad for the OSAS folks. I am currently reading Luke 15 and thought of some interesting points.

Luke 15:4 (KJV)
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:7 (KJV)
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:8 (KJV)
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

Of course we know what happened to the Prodigal son. However, it appears by the reading that these sheep, coins, and son, were all in the fold, treasure, and house, at one time but became separated and lost. All, needed found again. Just thought it was interesting...

Excellent post

Furthermore, any prooftexts used by OSASers can easily be refuted when seen in light of their context.

[Reuben]

Furthermore, any prooftexts used by OSASers can easily be refuted when seen in light of their context.

I agree

I think there is another interesting aspect to all of this. The responsibility in finding the sheep and the coin rested on the shepherd and the woman. However, the son was personally responsible for coming back to his father. I feel like I'm seeing this chapter in a different way today.

[Justaned]

John 10:29 (KJV)
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The above Scripture is the favorite launching pad for the OSAS folks. I am currently reading Luke 15 and thought of some interesting points.

Luke 15:4 (KJV)
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:7 (KJV)
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:8 (KJV)
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

Of course we know what happened to the Prodigal son. However, it appears by the reading that these sheep, coins, and son, were all in the fold, treasure, and house, at one time but became separated and lost. All, needed found again. Just thought it was interesting...

Excellent post

Furthermore, any prooftexts used by OSASers can easily be refuted when seen in light of their context.

That statement is true but the word "light" must be defined as reading as interpretation. Prooftexts are always true when read in the users interpretation of context. Where prooftexts are revealed as being false is when they do not support the whole of God's word.

[Rocky]

I just wonder what Calvinist and the OSAS crowd do with the book of James or the sermon on the mount? I do know the hyper grace crowd say the book of James is the result of faith which makes no sense if you actually take the book of James for what it says. Its says faith without works is dead not works is a result of faith. James then goes on to say Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works So works show faith not that work is a result of faith. a little off subject but OSAS does pretty much teach that one cannot lose his salvation regardless of how he lives. I like this as well And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Those versus use to baffle me because I use to be into the OSAS teaching when I first came to know the lord. Then God got me out of it early on.

[Justaned]

John 10:29 (KJV)
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The above Scripture is the favorite launching pad for the OSAS folks. I am currently reading Luke 15 and thought of some interesting points.

Luke 15:4 (KJV)
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:7 (KJV)
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:8 (KJV)
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

Of course we know what happened to the Prodigal son. However, it appears by the reading that these sheep, coins, and son, were all in the fold, treasure, and house, at one time but became separated and lost. All, needed found again. Just thought it was interesting...

I just wonder what Calvinist and the OSAS crowd do with the book of James or the sermon on the mount?

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

[Reuben]

Yes, very good Rocky - I refer to this one often myself.

James 5:19-20 (KJV)
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

It's also interesting to note that the churches of Revelation 2 & 3 are threatened with removal in some cases if they do not repent. Here is one statement that is inescapable found in chapter three.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV)
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Here again, back to the original point of Luke. When comparing the staple scripture of John in reference to no man plucking a person out of the hand of Father... Yet Jesus clearly states that He Himself will remove a person out of the Book of Life.

I think one thing we all (myself included) fall into is when we fail to take a holistic view of Scripture and become imbalanced in our doctrinal stance.

[Reuben]

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

Ed, that always bothered me about Luther. As I posted above... he failed to take the holistic view and literally mistook what James was saying concerning works and faith. I personally believe that James gives us the greatest clarification on faith and works.