Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Psycho Babble

[Justaned]

In a past thread people were trying to say a preacher wasn't saying God was a failure but rather was using it to illustrate a point. God wasn't a failure because He never said He was a failure. So man should never say of themselves that they are failures. While I think that whole line of thought is nonsense to me the person that made the comment was trying to denigrate God in an effort to elevate man. But just for moment let us that wasn't the case. That speaker really was trying illustrate a point. Is that Psycho Babble scriptural?

Luke 18:10-14 (NKJV)
10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

The first guy spoke positive about himself but Jesus didn't say, "that is it, that's what I have been talking about, positive confession."

Nor did Jesus say, "oh the second guy put himself down he shouldn't have done that. He called himself a failure."

No just the opposite Jesus said the second man went down to his house justified.

What some say the preacher said may sound good to the human ego but scripture says just the opposite. James 4:10 (NKJV)
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Either way this preacher that said God was a failure was dead wrong. God isn't a failure, and if he was using it to illustrate a point, his point was in contradiction to scripture. When are we going to stop listening to this Psycho Babble from TV preachers and start demanding the true and unadulterated word of God. Not God's word spun to tickle our ears but God word spoken to make us whole?

[cpbeller]

hmmm....

One major point that is missing from this post, though. Copeland was not speaking that to simple sinner-men. He was speaking that to Christians. Paul the Apostle told us that we are more than conquerors through Him, we are the Righteousness of God in Christ. We are joint-heirs with Christ, and heirs of God. We are a NEW CREATION, and the old things have passed away, and behold, here is the new.

I can agree with you that this view of not calling yourself a failure is not correct for the man lost in sin, "Man", as you put it. But the qoute was not spoken to Man, but to Christians, the New Creation, recreated by the Holy Spirit, more than conquerors, who have the Mind of Christ, who are the Living Temples of God.

[Watchman2013]

If Copeland was speaking to Christians only, he should have said so, for no preacher knows if all listening to him are Saved. Often, especially in those large "camp meetings," there are many seekers, those questioning if they really want to become "in Christ." To that end, one must never take anything for granted, as to the current disposition of those present. To assume so, is to court error, and that error, could be tragic or catastrophic...

Generalities are things that do not apply to everyone. Like the pattern of a shotgun blast, pellets can miss their intended targets...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[cpbeller]

Ok...I am backing off of this. I made my point. I am done with it.

[Justaned]

hmmm....

One major point that is missing from this post, though. Copeland was not speaking that to simple sinner-men. He was speaking that to Christians. Paul the Apostle told us that we are more than conquerors through Him, we are the Righteousness of God in Christ. We are joint-heirs with Christ, and heirs of God. We are a NEW CREATION, and the old things have passed away, and behold, here is the new.

I can agree with you that this view of not calling yourself a failure is not correct for the man lost in sin, "Man", as you put it. But the qoute was not spoken to Man, but to Christians, the New Creation, recreated by the Holy Spirit, more than conquerors, who have the Mind of Christ, who are the Living Temples of God.

But Christians are nothing if it weren't and still is for Christ. We haven't achieved our position ourselves, a price was paid and it was paid by another. As Christians this should humble us more than a sinner for we know it is not our power and might that delivers us but Christ that liveth in us. Our strength does not come from us but through God that strengthens us.

Psycho Babble would have us feel good about ourselves. God would have us feel good because of Christ within us.

James 4:10 (NKJV)
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Was not written to unbelievers it was written to believers. It is God that should lift us up, not the psycho babble of positive confession.

The denial of our failure is not denying the adversary our defeat it is denying God the opportunity to come in and lift us up. We can allow psycho babble and pride to take us to where sin lives but humbling ourselves allows God to lift us up.

[cpbeller]

Ed...did you even read what I said?

"Paul the Apostle told us that we are more than conquerors through Him, we are the Righteousness of God in Christ. We are joint-heirs with Christ, and heirs of God. We are a NEW CREATION, and the old things have passed away, and behold, here is the new."

Of course we have not attained those positions because of how awesome we are...it is all because of Christ in us. And that is what Copeland has been teaching for years and years...And that is what I had said, if only you would have actually read it.

[Justaned]

Ed...did you even read what I said?

"Paul the Apostle told us that we are more than conquerors through Him, we are the Righteousness of God in Christ. We are joint-heirs with Christ, and heirs of God. We are a NEW CREATION, and the old things have passed away, and behold, here is the new."

Of course we have not attained those positions because of how awesome we are...it is all because of Christ in us. And that is what Copeland has been teaching for years and years...And that is what I had said, if only you would have actually read it.

Christ I did read what you said. And I do agree to a point.
However if we fail to achieve whatever, I believe we should be first to admit the failure and allow God to lift us up. To deny our inability to accomplish something does not deny the adversary it only hinders us from humbling ourselves so God can lift us up. There is nothing wrong in saying in myself I am a failure but because of Christ who lives in me and strengthens me I can do all things in Christ. Focus has to be on Christ not human ability or the denial of human inability.

The move within Christianity today is to make people feel good about themselves at the expense of giving God and Christ the credit. We should feel good because God has deemed us worthy to serve others. Too many think this make them aloft and some actually look down their noses, and few ever serve. Look at most churches they must beg and many must resort to payment to get people to serve using the God given talents they possess.

[Rocky]

Ed...did you even read what I said?

Yeah there is a lot of that going around on here lately. Oh off subject again, I love your signature by the way, never noticed it before.

[branham1965]

my point REVED
WAS.... that in 1886 only 32%% of the world was part of Christendom.
just 16%% were Protestant.
in 2003 the number was around 34%%%.in 2008 it went down to 32%%%
something is wrong.if God has tried to convert the world in this Age he is not doing so.

In a past thread people were trying to say a preacher wasn't saying God was a failure but rather was using it to illustrate a point. God wasn't a failure because He never said He was a failure. So man should never say of themselves that they are failures. While I think that whole line of thought is nonsense to me the person that made the comment was trying to denigrate God in an effort to elevate man. But just for moment let us that wasn't the case. That speaker really was trying illustrate a point. Is that Psycho Babble scriptural?

Luke 18:10-14 (NKJV)
10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

The first guy spoke positive about himself but Jesus didn't say, "that is it, that's what I have been talking about, positive confession."

Nor did Jesus say, "oh the second guy put himself down he shouldn't have done that. He called himself a failure."

No just the opposite Jesus said the second man went down to his house justified.

What some say the preacher said may sound good to the human ego but scripture says just the opposite. James 4:10 (NKJV)
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Either way this preacher that said God was a failure was dead wrong. God isn't a failure, and if he was using it to illustrate a point, his point was in contradiction to scripture. When are we going to stop listening to this Psycho Babble from TV preachers and start demanding the true and unadulterated word of God. Not God's word spun to tickle our ears but God word spoken to make us whole?

[Justaned]

Ed...did you even read what I said?

Yeah there is a lot of that going around on here lately. Oh off subject again, I love your signature by the way, never noticed it before.

First of all I never mentioned Copeland in this thread because I didn't want to go there. Secondly Chris made his point using the truth of scripture but also tried to validate Copeland at the same time. It wasn't that I didn't buy what Chris said about scripture it was I didn't buy what he tried to pass off as the reasoning behind what Copeland was saying.

So while it appears that I ignored what Christ said, I did not, I had carefully read it, but didn't want to take this thread there.

I wanted this thread to about how we portray ourselves to our self, to God and to others around us.

Humbleness is a quality the most people are drawn to but refuse to let others see it in them. Our Ego thinks we are pretty alright and if someone tells us that is scriptural we holler AMEN! instead of oh me.