Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ God's Word...

[Watchman2013]

What is it with people?

The Holy Bible stands alone, perfect, inviolate, interpreted and illuminated for Man, by The Precious Holy Spirit of Almighty God... So, why does Man, and that also refers to some here, on DBDB, seek to make The Word of God fit their view? Is it not right, proper, and obedient to God, to honor it, The Word of God, and Him, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, by reading and understanding it as written? Reverend Dake thought so, and gave wise guidelines for interpreting prophecy, where literal understanding was beyond our ken?

So, why parse, twist, and pervert God's Word? Do some here believe that God provides "wiggle room?" I'm beginning to believe so, for things are written/said here, that are not in line with God's Word, or His Spirit... God meant what He said/says. Period. Who are we to change His Word, to meet our expectations, our needs, wants or desires? God said what He Said. Period. End of story.

Some here do not remember what Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, Himself, warned, as spoken by the Apostle John, in The Revelation of Jesus Christ, to John the Beloved Apostle?

Revelation 22:18-20 (AMP)

18 I [personally solemnly] warn everyone who listens to the statements of the prophecy [the predictions and the consolations and admonitions pertaining to them] in this book: If anyone shall add anything to them, God will add and lay upon him the plagues (the afflictions and the calamities) that are recorded and described in this book.
19 And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy [these predictions relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions or warnings pertaining to them], God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness (purity and hallowedness), which are described and promised in this book.
20 He Who gives this warning and affirms and testifies to these things says, Yes (it is true). [Surely] I am coming quickly (swiftly, speedily). Amen (so let it be)! Yes, come, Lord Jesus!

The above should be seen to apply to the entire Word of God- not just what "buffet Christians" choose to accept or reject... That is not God's Way, nor should it be ours... All of God, and His Word, or none at all...

Be honest with yourself, and be honest with God. Either God and His Word are perfect, or you are not a Christian. You can't have it both ways... The Word of God says what He says, and there is no wiggle room...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[cpbeller]

I agree...but let me ask you this one question: Do you ever allow your own bias in what you believe to influence your understanding of the Bible?

If you say "no", then I think even Ed would disagree with you (he has admitted himself that he even allows his own bias to influence his views and understanding of the Bible).

If you say "yes", then you are, I am assuming, speaking to yourself just as much as to anyone else on this board when you refer to ppl on this board?

We need to strive to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us, to direct us, and to teach us. That does not always happen, though, and all of us tends to allow our own experiences, understanding, and beliefs shade what the Spirit of Truth is trying to show and teach us. None of us have it 100% correct, but too many of us seem to be so unteachable, we seem to have a "I am right, you are wrong" attitude, that we all miss out on what the Holy Spirit desires for us to learn.

I know it is a trait that I try to put down within myself daily. Sometimes I fail, sometimes I succeed...but I am not always completely right, you are not always completely wrong (even Ed isn't completely wrong, just mostly )

The difficulty of understanding what the Spirit wants us to learn, to know...is we too many times believe we already know it.

[cpbeller]

Just a continuation of my previous post...

That was not meant as an insult, or a challenge...but I believe it to be very true. The Lord brought a phrase to me a number of years ago: "Do you study the Word to be approved, or to prove a point?"

I believe that too many times (and I am very guilty of this), we go into debate mode, instead of discussion. We do not read what is written by each other. A lot of assuming takes place, a lot of finger-pointing, and a lot of shouting and berating others understanding of the Scriptures. A lot of religious words are thrown around to guilt-trip each other to see things "my" way.

An example...we both could read Mark 11:22-25, and I would almost guarantee that both of us are going to come away from that passage with two completely different understandings and interpretations. Then, according to internet forum etiquette, we are both going to tell each other that the other is wrong, and do not know the voice of God, and perhaps, the other is not even saved. That they need to learn to read their Bibles, that they need to humble themselves, and get right with God. Now, I think that both of us probably have it at least a little bit wrong, and both of us probably have it a little bit right, and both of us probably do know God, and both can hear and usually know His voice...

But what happens on here is we puff out our chests and go into "fight or flight", and since this is an internet message board, where we do not have to worry ourselves about facing each other physically, face-to-face, and risk getting knocked out by a left cross followed by a right hook to the jaw, it is a "fight" response. We then begin to try to tear apart the others views without any regard to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, "I" am the one that could be wrong, and maybe, just maybe, "I" have not put it all together and gotten a more complete picture of what the Word is saying.

I am very guilty of this attitude, and that is why I refrain so many times from replying and taking part in the discussions on here...it is a struggle. No matter how "right" I am, I need to go into a discussion or study with the attitude that says to God, "show me where I am wrong".

[Watchman2013]

Good Morning, Sir!

I am sorry for the late response. When I first received your missives, it was past 0230 MST. Until an hour ago, the Internet was down, and now, I'm just having my first cup of coffee... At first blush, I am heartened, gratified, and ecstatic with your posts. You so beautifully, poignantly, put forth truth, honesty, and integrity. I salute you, Sir. If most people were so honest with God, the world would be a much better place...

"I agree...but let me ask you this one question: Do you ever allow your own bias in what you believe to influence your understanding of the Bible?" I must confess, that I now go to God, with fear and trembling, before posting. I am constantly aware that any word, or idea, could cause someone to miss God, His Dear Son Jesus Christ, and thereby not receive Salvation. That, my friend, is my greatest fear. Should I err, by not putting forth exactly what the Lord wishes, someone else may well suffer, and that would be tragic in the extreme. I do not think much of myself, for it is God that is important. I seek nothing, but to please Him, and I am well aware of my shortcomings, my imperfections. In spite of those weaknesses, when I speak, it is with the sole motive of sharing the Glorious Gospel of Christ, as unto Salvation.

I am, on the whole, a very simple man. Once upon a time, family and friends called me "One Track." Call me obsessive, geared toward sharing Jesus, and Him Crucified. Of the Apostles, Paul is my favorite, followed by John, and James. Like a sniper, I focus upon my target, and nothing dissuades me, other than extreme fatigue or illness. In the eyes of others, I have no social life, other than sharing Jesus, and that, now, most often with people on the internet, or by phone.

I am mere flesh, and therefore susceptible to error. That is why I'm always approaching God in fear and trembling, before saying anything, especially if so saying it is, "Thus saith The Lord..." As a mere sinner saved by God's Grace, I must, figuratively, scourge or flagellate my flesh, always remembering that it was through the words and actions of others, that I came to the place in life, and circumstance, that I could be saved by Grace... Those prayers, perhaps of those whom I'll not know until Heaven, broke down obstacles, made possible, the ability to hear, and understand, the Word of God, as it went forth in the Salvation message... Praise God, for their steadfast prayers, and their diligence in persevering in their task!

Do I fight against the flesh, and biases that have been formed, or allowed into my mind- contrary to becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus? Certainly. Outside of God, the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, and those now in Heaven, none is without blemish, nor unaffected by the things of this world. It is a constant struggle, to resist persistent attacks by the Devil, who goes about as a ravening lion, seeking whom he may devour. Praise God!, that His Grace is sufficient for me! By myself, and of myself, I am nothing, without Him...

Yes, cpbeller, I am afraid of missing God, of not hearing His Spirit correctly. In computers, back in the dark ages, we had "tell me once, tell me twice, tell me three times" in checking how software and machinery worked. We took nothing for granted. So too, must we never take God for granted... The consequences for error, when "using" God's Word, could well be catastrophic. If even one soul should miss Heaven, or harm come to any, it would reflect badly upon God. That we must never do, and therefore must seek Him, constantly, to be sure that we are walking in His Light...

"Yes," in relation to your question, is too shallow an answer. It is orders of magnitude in depth, for as is the Word of God, it encompasses everything. The Word of God gives life, and that more abundantly. It sets one free from Hell, death, and destruction. Improperly used, it causes chaos, and can actually cause someone to miss Heaven... Whether it be stones, or nuclear weapons, words, and actions, are a result of cause and effect...

I know, I know, I've used the Bereans ad nauseum. but it's true... We must always test everything against the Word and Spirit of God... Again, ad nauseum, the consequences of not being correct, all the time, could well be catastrophic, tragic, and unthinkable... Only by The Spirit and the Word of God, is there the level of accuracy and faithfulness, that God requires of us, who share His Son with others, as unto Salvation. Jesus gave all- can we do less?

I preach to others, as much as I preach to myself. I'm insular by nature, yet with others, and the opportunity to share Jesus, I change... No good can come from me, a sinner saved by God's Grace, lest it be from God, and to His Glory. Compared to the gregarious of nature, I am dull- unless sharing the Love, Mercy, Grace, and Kindness of the Lord... Being an incurable romantic, the greatest love story of all time, that truly brings love, joy, happiness, and peace, is Jesus Christ, and the sacrifices He made for us...

Do I know everything? Heaven's, No! I learn every day, for there are more questions, than there are answers apparent to me! I am not the dogged scholar that some are. I am aware of the precision of God's Word, and the Holy Bible, His Word, in the KJV, Amplified, or NASB- In English! Yes, a thorough knowledge of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin would be nice, but that's not how my limited mind is geared... If it's in the Bible, that's good enough for me...

I don't know how many here have risked their lives, in service to their countries, or in care or defense of others... When the Lord said to take up our crosses, daily, and follow Him, He meant the same thing as the infantry Sargent in WWI, ready to go "over the top." When he shouted, "What? Do you want to live forever?" He was saying, duty calls... The motto of the US Coast Guard is Semper Paratas, "Always Ready." An old Coastie Chief once said to me, that the unofficial motto of the Coast Guard is the one they live, and die by... "Youse gots ta go out, Youse don'ts gots ta come back." That should be the motto, and creedo of all Christians... We must always be thinking and planning to go, "Once more into the breech, dear friends..."

Do I shoot at, and sometimes miss the High Calling of God? In the past, in my "Christian" youth, after the bloom of physical youth was nearly past? Yes. Zeal for His Word did, at times, eat me up. Sometimes, I could be as hard, as the blunt end of an axe. Satan was raging about, and had to be stopped, souls had to be one, and I thought I was invincible. Invincibility leaves when the Wisdom of God arrives... So, too, does the arrival of the knowledge of God's Word. We are responsible for what we know. Ignorance, as we learned in the military, is no excuse.

We must always seek to expand our knowledge of God and His Word. In looking at the signs of the times, we must ever be aware of the fragility of life, and the shortness of time, before Our Lord and Savior Returns... Do we know when? No, no one knows, not even The Son of God, for the Father has not yet told Him... So we must be diligent, occupying, not stultifying, but seizing the day, and making it a glorious victory for God- each and every day...

I constantly talk with God. I ask Him questions, and am led by His Spirit, in doing as He asks. Am I always right? I have total belief, and faith, in Him. I don't have any faith in me, myself, but only in Him. He never fails, and is Holy and perfect- in every way. That's why I've grown to the point where I consult Him, with much fear and trembling, for to err could be disastrous... Even so, it is possible to err, for while we are still human, still creatures encased and subject to the flesh, we must resist all impulses that could be contrary to God, His Will, His Intents, and His Purposes...

Am I timid? I don't think so. Cautious? Yes. One must seek The Lord, and do as He Leads... Can I miss the mark? Yes, but that is what I fear most... So, my spiritual life must ever be "belt and suspenders..."

I seek no confrontations, unless it be at the Lord's direction. Even then, it is "only" to draw one's attention back to God and His Word. Again, at times, I can still be as subtle as the blunt end of an axe. I sometimes lose patience, when people hare-off on bunny trails, not staying focused upon the Word of God, or what The Spirit of God is saying. It's a flaw I have, and for that I ask understanding, if forgiveness is too much to ask...

I study the Word of God for enlightenment, direction, and comfort. To do so, and to act upon His Word, is to garner His Approval. All I want in life, is His Approval. So, no, I don't study His Word to prove anything. I can't change anyone, their minds, or anything else. God's Word, spoken, or written, with integrity, honesty, and faithfulness, can, and does, change lives. To God be all Honor, Power, and Praise! To use God's Word for any other purpose, would be contrary to His Will, Intents, and Purposes...

As to the glorious passage, Mark 11:22-25, I take it literally. In toto. As stated, I'm a very simple man. God said it- Period. What I, or anyone else thinks, is subordinate to what God says. That's the only way I can look at anything. Remember, I used to be called, "One Track." God grants Grace to all of His Children. Your understanding of the Holy Word of God may well be an understanding that is different from mine, but totally in concert with what God is saying to You, at that particular time and place. The Word of God is like a multidimensional tapestry that has height, width, length, and depth. We could both be right, coming to our understanding from different directions- AS GOD GIVES US UNDERSTANDING, and still be right... Here, as in the group of blind men describing the elephant, we must be like the Bereans, and test everything by the Word and Spirit of God...

Many do not read their Bibles, preferring to be like Alexander, seeking a "Royal Road" to knowledge that has never been there... Seeking God's Wisdom and Knowledge, may to some, be arduous, but is necessary. If we but open ourselves to the Spirit of God, He testifies of God The Father and The Son, and illuminates what we need- without fail. He, like The Father and The Son, is ever faithful, and is desirous of giving us what we need, abundantly. We must never put God in a "box," for that limits Him, in what He can do... Too often, people hear others, not God's Voice, and into error they willingly gallop to destruction... Test the Spirit and The Word of God, and error will be in the rear-view mirror of the past...

"But what happens on here is we puff out our chests and go into "fight or flight", and since this is an internet message board, where we do not have to worry ourselves about facing each other physically, face-to-face, and risk getting knocked out by a left cross followed by a right hook to the jaw, it is a "fight" response. We then begin to try to tear apart the others views without any regard to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, "I" am the one that could be wrong, and maybe, just maybe, "I" have not put it all together and gotten a more complete picture of what the Word is saying."

I'm too old to get into a donnybrook, for I'm old, not as physically strong, nor as fast, as I once was. I have ways of physically protecting myself, that many do not have, nor even consider viable options for them. I think that I may be more valuable to God, alive, than dead. Therefore, I won't be a victim of violence. Likewise, I'm sworn to protect the helpless, the innocent, or the hopeless, with my life, if necessary. Reason? It's not God's Will, that any should perish. Like I took the Oath to protect and defend the US Constitution against "all enemies foreign and domestic," back in 1969, I still hold on to that, as the Constitution still affords us the right, privilege, and freedom to worship Who we want to. In my case, God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, as a Christian. It is because I am old, that flight is not an option. That's all here, in the physical realm.

I don't seek to tear down anyone. To do so is foolish, and not God's Will. However, if someone is egregiously in error, the words of Edmund Burke come to mind: "Evil triumphs, when good men do nothing..." Hitler should have been stopped before he took the Sudetenland... History is rife with other cogent examples, of "nipping in the bud" situations that spun out of control, throwing the world into chaos... "The Word of God is mightier that a two edged sword..." To this end, one must use it wisely, and not frivolously... "Seeking to be approved" is of paramount importance, lest we fall into error, and lead others, as the blind leading the blind, into a ditch...

Again, I am human, and am susceptible to error. Fighting that predilection, is of the greatest importance, for every word we write, speak, or action we take, affects others. When we are not in God's Light, being led by Him, we can adversely affect others, and if visitors, or baby Christians, see us being less than vigilant in our defense of the Faith, we do err, perhaps to their detriment...

Life, cpbeller, is a struggle. From the time we first draw breath, to the time we "sleep" in the Lord, should He tarry, we struggle. That's where The Full Armor of God comes in... God has provided us with yet another way, as He does for all situations... Availing ourselves of what God has provided us, is wisdom...

I hope I've given you satisfactory answers to your questions. I've been honest in my responses, and yes, you did challenge me to defend myself, to myself. For that, I Thank-you, Sir. Arduous, and fulfilling...

In this discussion, I think we agree far more, than either of us would have initially expected.

God Bless You, Sir, and May He Shower You and Yours With His Blessings, Amen.

Maranatha

Watchman2013
:"

[Rocky]

Watchman2013 and cpbeller enjoyed reading both of your post, great stuff brothers..

[Justaned]

I was trying to copy in the Calvin and Hobbes comic that would be applicable to this discussion.
http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes#.UopdPdKshNc

[Watchman2013]

Hi Justaned,

Glad I had just finished my coffee, before reading that! Otherwise, you might owe me a new keyboard!

Please, where I'm wrong, let me know. As stated in an above post, I have fear and trembling before God, when I have to post anywhere... Life is so precious, and time is so short, one must always be cognizant of one's words... To be less so, is not acceptable.

Thanks for the chuckle, and also, thanks for your friendship.

Watchman2013

[Justaned]

Hi Justaned,

Glad I had just finished my coffee, before reading that! Otherwise, you might owe me a new keyboard!

Please, where I'm wrong, let me know. As stated in an above post, I have fear and trembling before God, when I have to post anywhere... Life is so precious, and time is so short, one must always be cognizant of one's words... To be less so, is not acceptable.

Thanks for the chuckle, and also, thanks for your friendship.

Watchman2013

I don't think you are wrong I think you are rock solid. I think many will simply dismiss what you said as being holier than thou, but I would not care if I was you, since most have yet to even read their Bible clinging instead to the teaching of man.

[Watchman2013]

Thank-You, Justaned. May God's Blessings Always Be Upon You and Yours, Amen.

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[branham1965]

Watchman 2013
i thank you for your service to this great Nation.

are you referring to me???

im no different than anyone else here.oh i have more posts than anyone. i can comment like anyone else.

we all are fallible imperfect human beings giving our views.

if we equate our thoughts as God thoughts then we are in another realm altogether.