Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Who is in control?

[Rocky]

Actually Jesus did make more of a demand than most people think. The problem is our understanding of the word believe and the Greek word Pisteuo which is translated believe. To most people believing is the intellectual acceptance of something or agreement with. However the Greek word Pisteuo means to become dependent, it is even more than staking you life on it, it is basing your life on it.
Example I want to mountain climb and need a rope.
I go to the store and buy a rope rated at 5000LBS I walk out of the stored believing it will hold but that is not pIsteuo belief.
I take this rope to the top of a mountain tie it to a rock and throw the rest over the cliff. I tug on it and I believe it will hold me. But that is not pisteuo belief
I then put on a harass and connect myself to the rope I lean back and I'm convinced it will hold me. That is not pisteuo belief.
It is not until I go to edge of the cliff lean back and make my life dependent on that rope that I have Pisteuo believed.

To believe in Christ we must have made ourselves our very life dependent on Jesus Christ. To do that requires more than simply believing and standing up, walking away saying we are saved. It requires a change in us, I requires us to be born again not of flesh but of spirit, to yield ourselves to Christ and assume a servants role in our lives. It requires both a love for and committed obedience to Christ and that process must start at salvation or nothing has happened at all.

I understand what you are saying, and yes there must be a change. But getting in to this nip picking of what the word "believe" means is a little confusing to a lot of people. When I came to the lord I did not understand all of this. I simply Believed in Jesus, And then there was a change. Now weather that was an "intellectual acceptance" (which is a term coined by Lord ship and Calvinist as well) makes no difference to me, all I know is that I was different. These term like "easy believeism" and "intellectual acceptance" that you use a lot, are just terms with agendas that LS, OSAS and Baptist and Calvinist use because they do not believe in backsliding so the adherents of these theologies can claim "Oh they were not saved in the first place" when all they have to do is read and study the parable of the sower instead of man made explanations. Saying some one was never saved in the first place actually has an underline agenda of predestination, which is why I can't figure you out on this, because you do not believe in predstination, even though you believe in a lot the theologies and beliefs that were birthed out of calvinism. Do you have a background in the Baptist church?

[Justaned]

Actually Jesus did make more of a demand than most people think. The problem is our understanding of the word believe and the Greek word Pisteuo which is translated believe. To most people believing is the intellectual acceptance of something or agreement with. However the Greek word Pisteuo means to become dependent, it is even more than staking you life on it, it is basing your life on it.
Example I want to mountain climb and need a rope.
I go to the store and buy a rope rated at 5000LBS I walk out of the stored believing it will hold but that is not pIsteuo belief.
I take this rope to the top of a mountain tie it to a rock and throw the rest over the cliff. I tug on it and I believe it will hold me. But that is not pisteuo belief
I then put on a harass and connect myself to the rope I lean back and I'm convinced it will hold me. That is not pisteuo belief.
It is not until I go to edge of the cliff lean back and make my life dependent on that rope that I have Pisteuo believed.

To believe in Christ we must have made ourselves our very life dependent on Jesus Christ. To do that requires more than simply believing and standing up, walking away saying we are saved. It requires a change in us, I requires us to be born again not of flesh but of spirit, to yield ourselves to Christ and assume a servants role in our lives. It requires both a love for and committed obedience to Christ and that process must start at salvation or nothing has happened at all.

I understand what you are saying, and yes there must be a change. But getting in to this nip picking of what the word "believe" means is a little confusing to a lot of people. When I came to the lord I did not understand all of this. I simply Believed in Jesus, And then there was a change. Now weather that was an "intellectual acceptance" (which is a term coined by Lord ship and Calvinist as well) makes no difference to me, all I know is that I was different. These term like "easy believeism" and "intellectual acceptance" that you use a lot, are just terms with agendas that LS, OSAS and Baptist and Calvinist use because they do not believe in backsliding so the adherents of these theologies can claim "Oh they were not saved in the first place" when all they have to do is read and study the parable of the sower instead of man made explanations. Saying some one was never saved in the first place actually has an underline agenda of predestination, which is why I can't figure you out on this, because you do not believe in predstination, even though you believe in a lot the theologies and beliefs that were birthed out of calvinism. Do you have a background in the Baptist church?

Rocky
First the problem with my "nit picking" of what the word believe means is confusing is because people are not being taught/discipled. If people were taught/discipled as Jesus instructed there would be no confusion. But sadly many that are preaching haven't been discipled themselves so they have no idea how to go about should they ever feel they should disciple people. Christians have to understand Christianity is an all consuming lifestyle not an event or mere response to a sermon. They have to be taught to learn to yield to Christ, to lay down their life to serve God. Not to hold back or attempt to hold back some part of themselves.

I'm glad you experienced changes in your life but I don't think you have ever made Jesus Lord of you life. I may be wrong but that seems to cause your fur to go up when anyone mentions surrendering to your Lord.

Frankly I think you tend to approach scripture as a technical textbook rather than a love letter designed to guide us to full relationship with God. Most everything Jesus said and taught was not about believers but about people that needed to be in relationship with God. I don't see one parable off hand that Jesus taught about a believer and a failure in the believers life. Just running through them in my mind I believe everyone focused on an unbeliever and his need to be in right relationship with God the father. Paul often talks of believers battle of sanctification, he equates it to an athletic event or race. But he always bring it back to his inability to accomplish what he desires and must yield to Christ to accomplish it in his life.

I don't argue people aren't saved to preserve my theology. I'm concerned that the church today is producing people that think they are saved but aren't. That think they have eternal security but don't, that think they will hear "Well done good and faithful servant" one day but won't. I see people being Sunday Christians and the rest of the week pagans. And they are never being told different, their no nothing religion is never being challenged.

Scripture says where the people aren't instructed they will perish. People are perishing and will soon perish because they think they are saved and they aren't. NO it is not to preserve my theology, in fact I would lay it all down if I had to lead just one more to true salvation.

[Rocky]

Actually Jesus did make more of a demand than most people think. The problem is our understanding of the word believe and the Greek word Pisteuo which is translated believe. To most people believing is the intellectual acceptance of something or agreement with. However the Greek word Pisteuo means to become dependent, it is even more than staking you life on it, it is basing your life on it.
Example I want to mountain climb and need a rope.
I go to the store and buy a rope rated at 5000LBS I walk out of the stored believing it will hold but that is not pIsteuo belief.
I take this rope to the top of a mountain tie it to a rock and throw the rest over the cliff. I tug on it and I believe it will hold me. But that is not pisteuo belief
I then put on a harass and connect myself to the rope I lean back and I'm convinced it will hold me. That is not pisteuo belief.
It is not until I go to edge of the cliff lean back and make my life dependent on that rope that I have Pisteuo believed.

To believe in Christ we must have made ourselves our very life dependent on Jesus Christ. To do that requires more than simply believing and standing up, walking away saying we are saved. It requires a change in us, I requires us to be born again not of flesh but of spirit, to yield ourselves to Christ and assume a servants role in our lives. It requires both a love for and committed obedience to Christ and that process must start at salvation or nothing has happened at all.

I understand what you are saying, and yes there must be a change. But getting in to this nip picking of what the word "believe" means is a little confusing to a lot of people. When I came to the lord I did not understand all of this. I simply Believed in Jesus, And then there was a change. Now weather that was an "intellectual acceptance" (which is a term coined by Lord ship and Calvinist as well) makes no difference to me, all I know is that I was different. These term like "easy believeism" and "intellectual acceptance" that you use a lot, are just terms with agendas that LS, OSAS and Baptist and Calvinist use because they do not believe in backsliding so the adherents of these theologies can claim "Oh they were not saved in the first place" when all they have to do is read and study the parable of the sower instead of man made explanations. Saying some one was never saved in the first place actually has an underline agenda of predestination, which is why I can't figure you out on this, because you do not believe in predstination, even though you believe in a lot the theologies and beliefs that were birthed out of calvinism. Do you have a background in the Baptist church?

Rocky
First the problem with my "nit picking" of what the word believe means is confusing is because people are not being taught/discipled. If people were taught/discipled as Jesus instructed there would be no confusion. But sadly many that are preaching haven't been discipled themselves so they have no idea how to go about should they ever feel they should disciple people. Christians have to understand Christianity is an all consuming lifestyle not an event or mere response to a sermon. They have to be taught to learn to yield to Christ, to lay down their life to serve God. Not to hold back or attempt to hold back some part of themselves.

I'm glad you experienced changes in your life but I don't think you have ever made Jesus Lord of you life. I may be wrong but that seems to cause your fur to go up when anyone mentions surrendering to your Lord.

Frankly I think you tend to approach scripture as a technical textbook rather than a love letter designed to guide us to full relationship with God. Most everything Jesus said and taught was not about believers but about people that needed to be in relationship with God. I don't see one parable off hand that Jesus taught about a believer and a failure in the believers life. Just running through them in my mind I believe everyone focused on an unbeliever and his need to be in right relationship with God the father. Paul often talks of believers battle of sanctification, he equates it to an athletic event or race. But he always bring it back to his inability to accomplish what he desires and must yield to Christ to accomplish it in his life.

I don't argue people aren't saved to preserve my theology. I'm concerned that the church today is producing people that think they are saved but aren't. That think they have eternal security but don't, that think they will hear "Well done good and faithful servant" one day but won't. I see people being Sunday Christians and the rest of the week pagans. And they are never being told different, their no nothing religion is never being challenged.

Scripture says where the people aren't instructed they will perish. People are perishing and will soon perish because they think they are saved and they aren't. NO it is not to preserve my theology, in fact I would lay it all down if I had to lead just one more to true salvation.

So now we are back to questioning my relationship with the lord again? Look Ed just because I don't agree with you does not make me any less of a Christian. wow such arrogance. Well at least you did address some what of the things I stated But like always you revert back to this an then wonder why I mess with you. What wrong with you? Lets look at all of this lets see here, first you told me to get saved then you said I have not made Jesus lord and now my motives for reading and studying scripture is wrong.

[Justaned]

Actually Jesus did make more of a demand than most people think. The problem is our understanding of the word believe and the Greek word Pisteuo which is translated believe. To most people believing is the intellectual acceptance of something or agreement with. However the Greek word Pisteuo means to become dependent, it is even more than staking you life on it, it is basing your life on it.
Example I want to mountain climb and need a rope.
I go to the store and buy a rope rated at 5000LBS I walk out of the stored believing it will hold but that is not pIsteuo belief.
I take this rope to the top of a mountain tie it to a rock and throw the rest over the cliff. I tug on it and I believe it will hold me. But that is not pisteuo belief
I then put on a harass and connect myself to the rope I lean back and I'm convinced it will hold me. That is not pisteuo belief.
It is not until I go to edge of the cliff lean back and make my life dependent on that rope that I have Pisteuo believed.

To believe in Christ we must have made ourselves our very life dependent on Jesus Christ. To do that requires more than simply believing and standing up, walking away saying we are saved. It requires a change in us, I requires us to be born again not of flesh but of spirit, to yield ourselves to Christ and assume a servants role in our lives. It requires both a love for and committed obedience to Christ and that process must start at salvation or nothing has happened at all.

I understand what you are saying, and yes there must be a change. But getting in to this nip picking of what the word "believe" means is a little confusing to a lot of people. When I came to the lord I did not understand all of this. I simply Believed in Jesus, And then there was a change. Now weather that was an "intellectual acceptance" (which is a term coined by Lord ship and Calvinist as well) makes no difference to me, all I know is that I was different. These term like "easy believeism" and "intellectual acceptance" that you use a lot, are just terms with agendas that LS, OSAS and Baptist and Calvinist use because they do not believe in backsliding so the adherents of these theologies can claim "Oh they were not saved in the first place" when all they have to do is read and study the parable of the sower instead of man made explanations. Saying some one was never saved in the first place actually has an underline agenda of predestination, which is why I can't figure you out on this, because you do not believe in predstination, even though you believe in a lot the theologies and beliefs that were birthed out of calvinism. Do you have a background in the Baptist church?

Rocky
First the problem with my "nit picking" of what the word believe means is confusing is because people are not being taught/discipled. If people were taught/discipled as Jesus instructed there would be no confusion. But sadly many that are preaching haven't been discipled themselves so they have no idea how to go about should they ever feel they should disciple people. Christians have to understand Christianity is an all consuming lifestyle not an event or mere response to a sermon. They have to be taught to learn to yield to Christ, to lay down their life to serve God. Not to hold back or attempt to hold back some part of themselves.

I'm glad you experienced changes in your life but I don't think you have ever made Jesus Lord of you life. I may be wrong but that seems to cause your fur to go up when anyone mentions surrendering to your Lord.

Frankly I think you tend to approach scripture as a technical textbook rather than a love letter designed to guide us to full relationship with God. Most everything Jesus said and taught was not about believers but about people that needed to be in relationship with God. I don't see one parable off hand that Jesus taught about a believer and a failure in the believers life. Just running through them in my mind I believe everyone focused on an unbeliever and his need to be in right relationship with God the father. Paul often talks of believers battle of sanctification, he equates it to an athletic event or race. But he always bring it back to his inability to accomplish what he desires and must yield to Christ to accomplish it in his life.

I don't argue people aren't saved to preserve my theology. I'm concerned that the church today is producing people that think they are saved but aren't. That think they have eternal security but don't, that think they will hear "Well done good and faithful servant" one day but won't. I see people being Sunday Christians and the rest of the week pagans. And they are never being told different, their no nothing religion is never being challenged.

Scripture says where the people aren't instructed they will perish. People are perishing and will soon perish because they think they are saved and they aren't. NO it is not to preserve my theology, in fact I would lay it all down if I had to lead just one more to true salvation.

So now we are back to questioning my relationship with the lord again? Look Ed just because I don't agree with you does not make me any less of a Christian, wow such arrogance. Well at least you did address some what of the things I stated.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to question your relationship with God I'm stumbling over our two different perspectives of Christians having Jesus as Lord in their lives. To me to be a Christian you must be sold out to God. Truthfully I don't know how you view that statement.

[Rocky]

Ed if you would only quit with throwing this MacArthur stuff at me all the time you might actually know. Think of MacArthur views on this and then think the almost exact opposite, Also look at scriptures concerning salvation that's were you will find me. None of this Lord ship stuff is found in scripture the way you and MacArthur defines it. Sometimes you seem so busy spreading this stuff that you don't seem to read peoples replies. But you have to stop with the snap judgments because that will make me dismiss all of your other points that you are trying to make. Our discussions start out good but then you get into this you are not really saved stuff, because then all you will get from me is unicorn poo, and poopie pants and gifs lol..

[Justaned]

Ed if you would only quit with throwing this MacArthur stuff at me all the time you might actually know. Think of MacArthur views on this and then think the almost exact opposite, Also look at scriptures concerning salvation that's were you will find me. None of this Lord ship stuff is found in scripture the way you and MacArthur defines it. Sometimes you seem so busy spreading this stuff that you don't seem to read peoples replies. But you have to stop with the snap judgments because that will make me dismiss all of your other points that you are trying to make. Our discussions start out good but then you get into this you are not really saved stuff, because then all you will get from me is unicorn poo, and poopie pants and gifs lol..

Again I don't mean to seem like I'm judging, however it is so clear to me that we must make Jesus Lord of our lives to be truly saved. I can see no way around it. Again I fall back on Jesus saying we can not have two masters we will hate one and love the other, you can not serve God and serve the world. A servant must yield his will to the one he serves or he is not a faithful servant. There can be no exceptions.

[Rocky]

Ed if you would only quit with throwing this MacArthur stuff at me all the time you might actually know. Think of MacArthur views on this and then think the almost exact opposite, Also look at scriptures concerning salvation that's were you will find me. None of this Lord ship stuff is found in scripture the way you and MacArthur defines it. Sometimes you seem so busy spreading this stuff that you don't seem to read peoples replies. But you have to stop with the snap judgments because that will make me dismiss all of your other points that you are trying to make. Our discussions start out good but then you get into this you are not really saved stuff, because then all you will get from me is unicorn poo, and poopie pants and gifs lol..

Again I don't mean to seem like I'm judging, however it is so clear to me that we must make Jesus Lord of our lives to be truly saved. I can see no way around it. Again I fall back on Jesus saying we can not have two masters we will hate one and love the other, you can not serve God and serve the world. A servant must yield his will to the one he serves or he is not a faithful servant. There can be no exceptions.

Hi Ed I agree here...

[Rocky]

Ed Wrote: Frankly I think you tend to approach scripture as a technical textbook rather than a love letter designed to guide us to full relationship with God.

A love letter? I disagree some what. Ed I have gotten this thrown at me before. One time while at work a preacher and I were discussing women preachers and hair, he believed that A woman was not allowed to preach or even talk in church and it was a sin for her to cut her hair. I showed him context and he said the same thing but he added that I am to intellectual and I need to interpret scripture more spiritually. The fact is the Bible is a textbook, mind you a inspired textbook. This may seem weird to you to point this out but the definition of the word text book is: a book used as a standard work for the study of a particular subject.
Now what does the bible say about itself :All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
A love letter? Maybe but more so an inspired textbook revealing God's redemptive plan from man. I read and study the bible to understand doctrine and for instruction, for theology, spirituality and intellectually.. I believe to call the bible a love letter is doing it an injustice.

[Justaned]

Ed Wrote: Frankly I think you tend to approach scripture as a technical textbook rather than a love letter designed to guide us to full relationship with God.

A love letter? I disagree some what. Ed I have gotten this thrown at me before. One time while at work a preacher and I were discussing women preachers and hair, he believed that A woman was not allowed to preach or even talk in church and it was a sin for her to cut her hair. I showed him context and he said the same thing but he added that I am to intellectual and I need to interpret scripture more spiritually. The fact is the Bible is a textbook, mind you a inspired textbook. This may seem weird to you to point this out but the definition of the word text book is: a book used as a standard work for the study of a particular subject.
Now what does the bible say about itself :All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
A love letter? Maybe but more so an inspired textbook revealing God's redemptive plan from man. I read and study the bible to understand doctrine and for instruction, for theology, spirituality and intellectually.. I believe to call the bible a love letter is doing it an injustice.

At one time I might have agreed with you. Having been a professor of theology for the 20 years of the last 30 or so it would have been easy to look at the Bible as a text book. However as I read it I discovered God's love on every page, in every paragraph and sentence. It is so much more than a mere text book. It is God revealing Himself to us. We tend to focus in on things that aren't quite clear, seem confusing, are seen as demanding and controlling and miss the essence of what God is saying.

Almost every heated discussion on scripture is generated from a passage whose intent was something completely different than the subject being discussed. Example we argue over Noah's ark, whether is was large enough, physically able to hold all the animals, wonder what happened to all the waste and miss the truth that God loved creation enough to preserve it rather than starting all over and creating new. But most importantly to honor the promise made to Adam and Eve about the Messiah.

I shutter when someone uses a parable to support a concept that the parable was not intended to address, while many times is does support other doctrines, ideas and precepts the parable itself was designed as a life illustration to us.

Many times people wield the Bible as a slashing sword, shredding people leaving behind hurt and broken people. When in fact it was meant to be highly delicate scalpel given to us so we could carefully cut away the impediments of this physical realm to prepare us to enjoy the supernatural or spiritual realities we are soon to experience.

No it is not a text book but as I said a love letter written by the Father to his children.

[Rocky]

At one time I might have agreed with you. Having been a professor of theology for the 20 years of the last 30 or so it would have been easy to look at the Bible as a text book. However as I read it I discovered God's love on every page, in every paragraph and sentence. It is so much more than a mere text book. It is God revealing Himself to us. We tend to focus in on things that aren't quite clear, seem confusing, are seen as demanding and controlling and miss the essence of what God is saying.

Hmm Lets see here. Murder, rape, Body dismemberment, Fallen angels having relations with human women, Hell, Wars, plagues, People getting disemboweled, Gods Judgment, I don't know Ed the bible can be very dark at times.. Oh And I never said it was just a text book.

Almost every heated discussion on scripture is generated from a passage whose intent was something completely different than the subject being discussed. Example we argue over Noah's ark, whether is was large enough, physically able to hold all the animals, wonder what happened to all the waste and miss the truth that God loved creation enough to preserve it rather than starting all over and creating new. But most importantly to honor the promise made to Adam and Eve about the Messiah.

Well I never really get into those types of arguements

Many times people wield the Bible as a slashing sword, shredding people leaving behind hurt and broken people. When in fact it was meant to be highly delicate scalpel given to us so we could carefully cut away the impediments of this physical realm to prepare us to enjoy the supernatural or spiritual realities we are soon to experience.

Huh? Why did I just get a picture of this:

No it is not a text book but as I said a love letter written by the Father to his children.

So the Bible is a Love Letter? Could you explain this to me?