Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ God will not allow difficulty unless He has a divine purpose

[Justaned]

Quote the scripture that says an almighty all knowing God is surprized when someone dies.

I won't. I never said He is surprised when someone dies.

As for Calvin: Do you agree that the teaching that says some will go to Hell because God sovereignly chose them for Hell is from Hell itself? Yes or No, please.

yes
But it scripture does imply that God did create some, Pharaoh of Exodus was made with hardened heart toward God.

[Justaned]

But why God allowed man to be tempted knowing man would succum to it is beyond my understanding and I can not find an answer in scripture. But I don't know if that is the answer or not. Like I said it is something I ponder and I am assured I will know that answer when in perfection I can understand it.

God didn't know Ed, hence "being tested" Thats why he allowed them to be tested. It's called free will ED. If I know what you are going to do before you do it and then test you anyway that's not free will that is playing some sick game. Your Calvinism is showing again bro, that's why you wont let your self understand. Just simply read your bible with out this John Macarthur
Calvinistic filter. Oh and I have a John Macarthur commentary, I am on to you brother lol

Rocky
Scripture says God is all knowing. That is either true or it is not. I believe it is true.
Nothing Calvin about it.

If God being a creator does not know exactly what his creation is going to do then God isn't a creator but an experimenter. I do not believe God experiments with us. God tests us not for his benefit but for ours. None of us really know what we would do unless we are put into the situation.

If God came to Adam and said you will need a savior one day what do you think Adam would have said. Would it not have been the same thing Peter said to Jesus? Never! But the minute Adam and Peter were tested the both realized they had fallen short of the Glory of God and needed a Savior. Do you think God and Jesus didn't know that?

[bibleman]

But why God allowed man to be tempted knowing man would succum to it is beyond my understanding and I can not find an answer in scripture. But I don't know if that is the answer or not. Like I said it is something I ponder and I am assured I will know that answer when in perfection I can understand it.

God didn't know Ed, hence "being tested" Thats why he allowed them to be tested. It's called free will ED. If I know what you are going to do before you do it and then test you anyway that's not free will that is playing some sick game. Your Calvinism is showing again bro, that's why you wont let your self understand. Just simply read your bible with out this John Macarthur
Calvinistic filter. Oh and I have a John Macarthur commentary, I am on to you brother lol

Rocky
Scripture says God is all knowing. That is either true or it is not. I believe it is true.
Nothing Calvin about it.

If God being a creator does not know exactly what his creation is going to do then God isn't a creator but an experimenter. I do not believe God experiments with us. God tests us not for his benefit but for ours. None of us really know what we would do unless we are put into the situation.

If God came to Adam and said you will need a savior one day what do you think Adam would have said. Would it not have been the same thing Peter said to Jesus? Never! But the minute Adam and Peter were tested the both realized they had fallen short of the Glory of God and needed a Savior. Do you think God and Jesus didn't know that?

Hi Ed,

God learns things by the test He puts man through as in the case of Abraham!

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

[Justaned]

But why God allowed man to be tempted knowing man would succum to it is beyond my understanding and I can not find an answer in scripture. But I don't know if that is the answer or not. Like I said it is something I ponder and I am assured I will know that answer when in perfection I can understand it.

God didn't know Ed, hence "being tested" Thats why he allowed them to be tested. It's called free will ED. If I know what you are going to do before you do it and then test you anyway that's not free will that is playing some sick game. Your Calvinism is showing again bro, that's why you wont let your self understand. Just simply read your bible with out this John Macarthur
Calvinistic filter. Oh and I have a John Macarthur commentary, I am on to you brother lol

Rocky
Scripture says God is all knowing. That is either true or it is not. I believe it is true.
Nothing Calvin about it.

If God being a creator does not know exactly what his creation is going to do then God isn't a creator but an experimenter. I do not believe God experiments with us. God tests us not for his benefit but for ours. None of us really know what we would do unless we are put into the situation.

If God came to Adam and said you will need a savior one day what do you think Adam would have said. Would it not have been the same thing Peter said to Jesus? Never! But the minute Adam and Peter were tested the both realized they had fallen short of the Glory of God and needed a Savior. Do you think God and Jesus didn't know that?

Hi Ed,

God learns things by the test He puts man through as in the case of Abraham!

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God didn't know this before? After picking Abraham bringing him to the promise land making covenant with him, telling Abraham how he would be blessed?
What do you think God would have done if Abraham said no way? Tossed him out of the promised land, taken back the covenant and blessings?

Are you reading your Bible? God has dealt the Abraham for 10 chapters, gave him land, the promise of many relatives, promise of a boy, made Abraham's wife who apparently wasn't fertile and having passed the age of menopause become pregnant and have a child, dealt with Hagar, done all of his and was surprised at Abraham's decision?

There was no backing out of this if God hadn't known Abraham would be faithful in the test. The alternative would have been tear out 10 chapters of Genesis.
The test was Abraham's test. Abraham could not of have known what he would do until he was placed in that the position. God wasn't testing Abraham for God's benefit but rather for Abraham and ours. Abraham instantly becomes a role model for us that without the test we would never have.

You are trying to use remote passages to establish doctrine and truth. That passage wasn't to educate God about how faithful Abraham was, it was to educate us. God knew the answer if not God would have never chosen Abraham to come out of the land of UR.
God wanted us to see how much Abraham has grown, remember in previous chapters Abraham lied because he did not have enough faith in God. But now Abraham was totally committed to God and God knew it but it still had to be shown to Abraham himself and to us.

What you are doing is losing focus on the big picture. What was this a picture of? Was it not the picture of father allowing his son to be a sacrifice? The son had to carry wood that would be the instrument of the sacrifice, it was done in private between father and son. The son was obedient to the father to allow him to place the son on the altar.

Doesn't that sound like the story of Jesus. God allowed Jesus to be the sacrifice, Jesus carried the wooden cross, a darkness fell over the land making the crucifixion private between Father and Son. Jesus went to the cross in obedience to the father.

That is what it was all about not God trying to find out of Abraham would have faith enough. God knew Abraham.

[Rocky]

But why God allowed man to be tempted knowing man would succum to it is beyond my understanding and I can not find an answer in scripture. But I don't know if that is the answer or not. Like I said it is something I ponder and I am assured I will know that answer when in perfection I can understand it.

God didn't know Ed, hence "being tested" Thats why he allowed them to be tested. It's called free will ED. If I know what you are going to do before you do it and then test you anyway that's not free will that is playing some sick game. Your Calvinism is showing again bro, that's why you wont let your self understand. Just simply read your bible with out this John Macarthur
Calvinistic filter. Oh and I have a John Macarthur commentary, I am on to you brother lol

Rocky
Scripture says God is all knowing. That is either true or it is not. I believe it is true.
Nothing Calvin about it.

If God being a creator does not know exactly what his creation is going to do then God isn't a creator but an experimenter. I do not believe God experiments with us. God tests us not for his benefit but for ours. None of us really know what we would do unless we are put into the situation.

If God came to Adam and said you will need a savior one day what do you think Adam would have said. Would it not have been the same thing Peter said to Jesus? Never! But the minute Adam and Peter were tested the both realized they had fallen short of the Glory of God and needed a Savior. Do you think God and Jesus didn't know that?

Hi Ed,

God learns things by the test He puts man through as in the case of Abraham!

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God didn't know this before? After picking Abraham bringing him to the promise land making covenant with him, telling Abraham how he would be blessed?
What do you think God would have done if Abraham said no way? Tossed him out of the promised land, taken back the covenant and blessings?

Are you reading your Bible? God has dealt the Abraham for 10 chapters, gave him land, the promise of many relatives, promise of a boy, made Abraham's wife who apparently wasn't fertile and having passed the age of menopause become pregnant and have a child, dealt with Hagar, done all of his and was surprised at Abraham's decision?

There was no backing out of this if God hadn't known Abraham would be faithful in the test. The alternative would have been tear out 10 chapters of Genesis.
The test was Abraham's test. Abraham could not of have known what he would do until he was placed in that the position. God wasn't testing Abraham for God's benefit but rather for Abraham and ours. Abraham instantly becomes a role model for us that without the test we would never have.

You are trying to use remote passages to establish doctrine and truth. That passage wasn't to educate God about how faithful Abraham was, it was to educate us. God knew the answer if not God would have never chosen Abraham to come out of the land of UR.
God wanted us to see how much Abraham has grown, remember in previous chapters Abraham lied because he did not have enough faith in God. But now Abraham was totally committed to God and God knew it but it still had to be shown to Abraham himself and to us.

What you are doing is losing focus on the big picture. What was this a picture of? Was it not the picture of father allowing his son to be a sacrifice? The son had to carry wood that would be the instrument of the sacrifice, it was done in private between father and son. The son was obedient to the father to allow him to place the son on the altar.

Doesn't that sound like the story of Jesus. God allowed Jesus to be the sacrifice, Jesus carried the wooden cross, a darkness fell over the land making the crucifixion private between Father and Son. Jesus went to the cross in obedience to the father.

That is what it was all about not God trying to find out of Abraham would have faith enough. God knew Abraham.

Ed It says "For now I know".

[Justaned]

But why God allowed man to be tempted knowing man would succum to it is beyond my understanding and I can not find an answer in scripture. But I don't know if that is the answer or not. Like I said it is something I ponder and I am assured I will know that answer when in perfection I can understand it.

God didn't know Ed, hence "being tested" Thats why he allowed them to be tested. It's called free will ED. If I know what you are going to do before you do it and then test you anyway that's not free will that is playing some sick game. Your Calvinism is showing again bro, that's why you wont let your self understand. Just simply read your bible with out this John Macarthur
Calvinistic filter. Oh and I have a John Macarthur commentary, I am on to you brother lol

Rocky
Scripture says God is all knowing. That is either true or it is not. I believe it is true.
Nothing Calvin about it.

If God being a creator does not know exactly what his creation is going to do then God isn't a creator but an experimenter. I do not believe God experiments with us. God tests us not for his benefit but for ours. None of us really know what we would do unless we are put into the situation.

If God came to Adam and said you will need a savior one day what do you think Adam would have said. Would it not have been the same thing Peter said to Jesus? Never! But the minute Adam and Peter were tested the both realized they had fallen short of the Glory of God and needed a Savior. Do you think God and Jesus didn't know that?

Hi Ed,

God learns things by the test He puts man through as in the case of Abraham!

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God didn't know this before? After picking Abraham bringing him to the promise land making covenant with him, telling Abraham how he would be blessed?
What do you think God would have done if Abraham said no way? Tossed him out of the promised land, taken back the covenant and blessings?

Are you reading your Bible? God has dealt the Abraham for 10 chapters, gave him land, the promise of many relatives, promise of a boy, made Abraham's wife who apparently wasn't fertile and having passed the age of menopause become pregnant and have a child, dealt with Hagar, done all of his and was surprised at Abraham's decision?

There was no backing out of this if God hadn't known Abraham would be faithful in the test. The alternative would have been tear out 10 chapters of Genesis.
The test was Abraham's test. Abraham could not of have known what he would do until he was placed in that the position. God wasn't testing Abraham for God's benefit but rather for Abraham and ours. Abraham instantly becomes a role model for us that without the test we would never have.

You are trying to use remote passages to establish doctrine and truth. That passage wasn't to educate God about how faithful Abraham was, it was to educate us. God knew the answer if not God would have never chosen Abraham to come out of the land of UR.
God wanted us to see how much Abraham has grown, remember in previous chapters Abraham lied because he did not have enough faith in God. But now Abraham was totally committed to God and God knew it but it still had to be shown to Abraham himself and to us.

What you are doing is losing focus on the big picture. What was this a picture of? Was it not the picture of father allowing his son to be a sacrifice? The son had to carry wood that would be the instrument of the sacrifice, it was done in private between father and son. The son was obedient to the father to allow him to place the son on the altar.

Doesn't that sound like the story of Jesus. God allowed Jesus to be the sacrifice, Jesus carried the wooden cross, a darkness fell over the land making the crucifixion private between Father and Son. Jesus went to the cross in obedience to the father.

That is what it was all about not God trying to find out of Abraham would have faith enough. God knew Abraham.

Ed It says "For now I know".

Okay so I'll just tear out any part of scripture that talks of an all knowing God and write in a God often surprised.
Imagine a God capable of knowing enough to create all of creation but not able to know what something he created would do.
Does that sound like a God to anyone? It sure doesn't to me.
The God I serve is all knowing and knew what Abraham would do before he went to all the bother of putting a Ram in the bush to get tangled up in the bush.

[bibleman]

But why God allowed man to be tempted knowing man would succum to it is beyond my understanding and I can not find an answer in scripture. But I don't know if that is the answer or not. Like I said it is something I ponder and I am assured I will know that answer when in perfection I can understand it.

God didn't know Ed, hence "being tested" Thats why he allowed them to be tested. It's called free will ED. If I know what you are going to do before you do it and then test you anyway that's not free will that is playing some sick game. Your Calvinism is showing again bro, that's why you wont let your self understand. Just simply read your bible with out this John Macarthur
Calvinistic filter. Oh and I have a John Macarthur commentary, I am on to you brother lol

Rocky
Scripture says God is all knowing. That is either true or it is not. I believe it is true.
Nothing Calvin about it.

If God being a creator does not know exactly what his creation is going to do then God isn't a creator but an experimenter. I do not believe God experiments with us. God tests us not for his benefit but for ours. None of us really know what we would do unless we are put into the situation.

If God came to Adam and said you will need a savior one day what do you think Adam would have said. Would it not have been the same thing Peter said to Jesus? Never! But the minute Adam and Peter were tested the both realized they had fallen short of the Glory of God and needed a Savior. Do you think God and Jesus didn't know that?

Hi Ed,

God learns things by the test He puts man through as in the case of Abraham!

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God didn't know this before? After picking Abraham bringing him to the promise land making covenant with him, telling Abraham how he would be blessed?
What do you think God would have done if Abraham said no way? Tossed him out of the promised land, taken back the covenant and blessings?

Are you reading your Bible? God has dealt the Abraham for 10 chapters, gave him land, the promise of many relatives, promise of a boy, made Abraham's wife who apparently wasn't fertile and having passed the age of menopause become pregnant and have a child, dealt with Hagar, done all of his and was surprised at Abraham's decision?

There was no backing out of this if God hadn't known Abraham would be faithful in the test. The alternative would have been tear out 10 chapters of Genesis.
The test was Abraham's test. Abraham could not of have known what he would do until he was placed in that the position. God wasn't testing Abraham for God's benefit but rather for Abraham and ours. Abraham instantly becomes a role model for us that without the test we would never have.

You are trying to use remote passages to establish doctrine and truth. That passage wasn't to educate God about how faithful Abraham was, it was to educate us. God knew the answer if not God would have never chosen Abraham to come out of the land of UR.
God wanted us to see how much Abraham has grown, remember in previous chapters Abraham lied because he did not have enough faith in God. But now Abraham was totally committed to God and God knew it but it still had to be shown to Abraham himself and to us.

What you are doing is losing focus on the big picture. What was this a picture of? Was it not the picture of father allowing his son to be a sacrifice? The son had to carry wood that would be the instrument of the sacrifice, it was done in private between father and son. The son was obedient to the father to allow him to place the son on the altar.

Doesn't that sound like the story of Jesus. God allowed Jesus to be the sacrifice, Jesus carried the wooden cross, a darkness fell over the land making the crucifixion private between Father and Son. Jesus went to the cross in obedience to the father.

That is what it was all about not God trying to find out of Abraham would have faith enough. God knew Abraham.

Ed It says "For now I know".

Okay so I'll just tear out any part of scripture that talks of an all knowing God and write in a God often surprised.
Imagine a God capable of knowing enough to create all of creation but not able to know what something he created would do.
Does that sound like a God to anyone? It sure doesn't to me.
The God I serve is all knowing and knew what Abraham would do before he went to all the bother of putting a Ram in the bush to get tangled up in the bush.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "The God I serve is all knowing and knew what Abraham would do before he went to all the bother of putting a Ram in the bush to get tangled up in the bush."

ONE problem my friend...

The Bible says differently!

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

[macca]

How does Mat. 7:23 and Gal. 4:9; fit in with Ed's take?

macca

[branham1965]

noone in Pentecost or Charismatic churches that i know of believes the way the good Administrator does REVED.i say this with all respect to him.
but dont you know that???the AG,COG,GOGIC even the UPCI consider the positions held here you are debating to be false.they would side with you.

But why God allowed man to be tempted knowing man would succum to it is beyond my understanding and I can not find an answer in scripture. But I don't know if that is the answer or not. Like I said it is something I ponder and I am assured I will know that answer when in perfection I can understand it.

God didn't know Ed, hence "being tested" Thats why he allowed them to be tested. It's called free will ED. If I know what you are going to do before you do it and then test you anyway that's not free will that is playing some sick game. Your Calvinism is showing again bro, that's why you wont let your self understand. Just simply read your bible with out this John Macarthur
Calvinistic filter. Oh and I have a John Macarthur commentary, I am on to you brother lol

Rocky
Scripture says God is all knowing. That is either true or it is not. I believe it is true.
Nothing Calvin about it.

If God being a creator does not know exactly what his creation is going to do then God isn't a creator but an experimenter. I do not believe God experiments with us. God tests us not for his benefit but for ours. None of us really know what we would do unless we are put into the situation.

If God came to Adam and said you will need a savior one day what do you think Adam would have said. Would it not have been the same thing Peter said to Jesus? Never! But the minute Adam and Peter were tested the both realized they had fallen short of the Glory of God and needed a Savior. Do you think God and Jesus didn't know that?

Hi Ed,

God learns things by the test He puts man through as in the case of Abraham!

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God didn't know this before? After picking Abraham bringing him to the promise land making covenant with him, telling Abraham how he would be blessed?
What do you think God would have done if Abraham said no way? Tossed him out of the promised land, taken back the covenant and blessings?

Are you reading your Bible? God has dealt the Abraham for 10 chapters, gave him land, the promise of many relatives, promise of a boy, made Abraham's wife who apparently wasn't fertile and having passed the age of menopause become pregnant and have a child, dealt with Hagar, done all of his and was surprised at Abraham's decision?

There was no backing out of this if God hadn't known Abraham would be faithful in the test. The alternative would have been tear out 10 chapters of Genesis.
The test was Abraham's test. Abraham could not of have known what he would do until he was placed in that the position. God wasn't testing Abraham for God's benefit but rather for Abraham and ours. Abraham instantly becomes a role model for us that without the test we would never have.

You are trying to use remote passages to establish doctrine and truth. That passage wasn't to educate God about how faithful Abraham was, it was to educate us. God knew the answer if not God would have never chosen Abraham to come out of the land of UR.
God wanted us to see how much Abraham has grown, remember in previous chapters Abraham lied because he did not have enough faith in God. But now Abraham was totally committed to God and God knew it but it still had to be shown to Abraham himself and to us.

What you are doing is losing focus on the big picture. What was this a picture of? Was it not the picture of father allowing his son to be a sacrifice? The son had to carry wood that would be the instrument of the sacrifice, it was done in private between father and son. The son was obedient to the father to allow him to place the son on the altar.

Doesn't that sound like the story of Jesus. God allowed Jesus to be the sacrifice, Jesus carried the wooden cross, a darkness fell over the land making the crucifixion private between Father and Son. Jesus went to the cross in obedience to the father.

That is what it was all about not God trying to find out of Abraham would have faith enough. God knew Abraham.

Ed It says "For now I know".

Okay so I'll just tear out any part of scripture that talks of an all knowing God and write in a God often surprised.
Imagine a God capable of knowing enough to create all of creation but not able to know what something he created would do.
Does that sound like a God to anyone? It sure doesn't to me.
The God I serve is all knowing and knew what Abraham would do before he went to all the bother of putting a Ram in the bush to get tangled up in the bush.

[Rocky]

I think God uses many figures of speech to humanize Himself so we can better relate to what God is telling us.

Ed, But that makes no sense to. Would it not just be easier to take the bible for what it says? Ed you just can't dismiss scripture because it does not line up with what you want it to mean. I have seen people on here concerning a variety of subjects give you clear scriptures and either you will say Oh that's not what it is in the greek or will call it a "hyperbole" or its just "figures of speech" or that's not what it really means in its context. That kind of logic is how cults and bad theology gets started in the first place.