Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Overcoming Satan through God's Word (Part 1)

[victoryword]

I was actually going to bring the logos thing up as well, it kept going through my mind when I typed the above reply, but I didn't. Hmm could this be conformation and God trying to get his word across? Some times I can be stubern when the Holy Spirit nudges me I need to work on that.

We all need to work on that area Rocky

[Justaned]

Rocky
Did you listen to the video?
If not please do.
Did you read my objection to video?
If not please do.
Do you see where Victorydub said this verse says that having the word in you defeats the wicked one, when in fact the verse does not say that?
If not are you deaf?
Is that not adding to or subtracting from scripture?
If you don't think that is adding to scripture would you please supply your definition of what adding or subtracting from scripture is?
Is having the Word inside us the way the wicked one is defeated?
If you think so then why do you think Jesus had to go to the cross?

Don't get cute just answer these questions.

Now do you see the problem or not?

Umm
1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
I tried to find you objections but it does no make a lot of sense to me, it more looks like disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing. The bible gives countless verses and scriptures about the word over coming Satan..

Rocky This verse does not speak on how to over come the wicked one it simply says you have overcome the wicked one.
There are three adjectives given for these young men (four if you include young) 1 they are strong, 2 the word abided in them, 3 they have over come the the wicked one.
To take the second adjective and say that is how they over came the wicked one violates what the verse actually says.

If you can't see that then I can clearly understand how you believe what you do. You simply can't read.

Did they ever teach sentence diagramming in your school? If they did diagram this sentence and then tell me how it is a teaching on over coming the wicked one.

[Justaned]

Is having the Word inside us the way the wicked one is defeated?
If you think so then why do you think Jesus had to go to the cross?

Ed

Not sure why you have difficulty believing what that passage plainly teaches. However, you have a minority viewpoint on your interpretation. Let me quote to you from an old scholarly commentary that explains this from the original Greek in dispute of your claim:

• The [Greek] (ch. i. 6). with the [Greek] (ch. i. 6. 8; ii. 4), in the word of God, (ch. i. 10; ii. 2. 6. 7), creates and moves this vital strength and vital courage for the combat. Hence iaxvpoi tart is immediately followed by [the Greek phrase is given by the commentators], therefore, does not denote Christ, although He is the centre and star of that word. The word of God, with its eternal power, must not only be brought to them, but it must have entered into them and remain in them; then it happens : [the Greek phrase is given by the commentators]. The strength is grounded on the word of God, which abides in them (jiivei), and in virtue of this strength they have overcome the devil [the thought belongs to Huther—M.] ; the decisive battle, of course, has been fought by Jesus Christ, but His people ought to follow up His victory by continuous warfare, and gain further triumphs in their heart and sphere of life, cf. Jno. xvi. 83. – A Commentary on the Holy Scriptures By Johann Peter Lange, Philip Schaff, pp. 62, 63

As Bibleman already pointed out, you don't appear to have any confidence in God's Word to give us victory over satanic forces.

That is not the full quote because it does not make sense, there is either more or it was part of another discussion.
Whatever the case you are going to use a quote by a filthy Calvinist to refute me? I thought you said all Calvinist are liars destined to hell?

If you believe the verse says what you claim do me a favor diagram it for me and show me how the adjectives become nouns and are used to teach on how to overcome the wicked one.

This verse is describing the men, 1 they are young, 2 they are strong, 3 they have the word in the them, 4, they have overcome the wicked one. Show me where the teaching on how to overcome begins and end in this verse.

And how do we overcome the wicked one? Is it the word in us? Did not the pharisees and scribes have the word in them?
Does not Satan have the word in him? While the Word is important and the word leads us to the truth. Our victory over the wicked one is our belief in Jesus Christ. Or are you suggestting all one has to do to secure victory over the wicked one is to memorize some scripture? Surely you aren't going to go there.

If you like your sermon fantastic. It fits perfectly in a WOF church so preach it brother.

[bibleman]

Hey Ed,

Read this:

(2:14) "Strong" is ischuros, which refers to power as an endowment. Strength to overcome Satan is part of the salvation given the believer. It takes the form of the spiritual energy supplied the yielded saint by the Holy Spirit. "Abide" is menō, "to dwell in as a home." The word of God, residing in their hearts in an unhindered, welcome state, was that which, together with the power of the Holy Spirit, gave "these young men victory over Satan, the Pernicious One, who sought to drag them down with himself into the ruin that some day will be his.

Translation: I write to you, fathers, because you have come to know experientially the One who is from the beginning, and are as a present result, possessors of that knowledge. I write to you, young men, because you are strong with endowed strength, and the Word of God in you is abiding, and you have gained the victory over the Pernicious One, and as a present result are standing on his neck.

Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest's Word Studies – Volume 2: Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1973), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 125.

[Justaned]

Hey Ed,

Read this:

(2:14) "Strong" is ischuros, which refers to power as an endowment. Strength to overcome Satan is part of the salvation given the believer. It takes the form of the spiritual energy supplied the yielded saint by the Holy Spirit. "Abide" is menō, "to dwell in as a home." The word of God, residing in their hearts in an unhindered, welcome state, was that which, together with the power of the Holy Spirit, gave "these young men victory over Satan, the Pernicious One, who sought to drag them down with himself into the ruin that some day will be his.

Translation: I write to you, fathers, because you have come to know experientially the One who is from the beginning, and are as a present result, possessors of that knowledge. I write to you, young men, because you are strong with endowed strength, and the Word of God in you is abiding, and you have gained the victory over the Pernicious One, and as a present result are standing on his neck.

Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest's Word Studies – Volume 2: Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1973), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 125.

So you are saying the adjective to describe these young men is actually a teaching on how to overcome the wicked one?
How do you know their youth wasn't the reason or their strength wasn't?
Does this mean that old men can't overcome the wicked one?
Or weak men? Or people that don't have the word in them?

Is this sort like works? To be saved you have to memorized scripture so you can overcome the wicked one?

Which is it believe in Christ or memorizing the word? You tell me.


I want to thank you Bibleman, Victorydub, Rocky as I never could understand how some WOF teachers taught what they taught and you never challenged them. Now I know. If nothing else that lesson was worth all the time I wasted on this thread.
As I said if Victorydub is happy with what he said in video, fantastic it fits right in with other WOF teaching.

Oh by the way you are using another of those deceived and filthy Calvinist to try to prove your point, which I think you missed in what he was saying.

One more small question if we are standing on Satan's neck then how can we blame Satan for causing us to sin? Which is it are we standing on Satan's neck or is he running things and causing us to sin? You might want to see how that fits with your theology too. Or are we just going to toss that part out and just talk about the victory we had until we jumped off his neck.

[bibleman]

Hey Ed,

Read this:

(2:14) "Strong" is ischuros, which refers to power as an endowment. Strength to overcome Satan is part of the salvation given the believer. It takes the form of the spiritual energy supplied the yielded saint by the Holy Spirit. "Abide" is menō, "to dwell in as a home." The word of God, residing in their hearts in an unhindered, welcome state, was that which, together with the power of the Holy Spirit, gave "these young men victory over Satan, the Pernicious One, who sought to drag them down with himself into the ruin that some day will be his.

Translation: I write to you, fathers, because you have come to know experientially the One who is from the beginning, and are as a present result, possessors of that knowledge. I write to you, young men, because you are strong with endowed strength, and the Word of God in you is abiding, and you have gained the victory over the Pernicious One, and as a present result are standing on his neck.

Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest's Word Studies – Volume 2: Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1973), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 125.

So you are saying the adjective to describe these young men is actually a teaching on how to overcome the wicked one?
How do you know their youth wasn't the reason or their strength wasn't?
Does this mean that old men can't overcome the wicked one?
Or weak men? Or people that don't have the word in them?

Is this sort like works? To be saved you have to memorized scripture so you can overcome the wicked one?

Which is it believe in Christ or memorizing the word? You tell me.


I want to thank you Bibleman, Victorydub, Rocky as I never could understand how some WOF teachers taught what they taught and you never challenged them. Now I know. If nothing else that lesson was worth all the time I wasted on this thread.
As I said if Victorydub is happy with what he said in video, fantastic it fits right in with other WOF teaching.

Oh by the way you are using another of those deceived and filthy Calvinist to try to prove your point, which I think you missed in what he was saying.

One more small question if we are standing on Satan's neck then how can we blame Satan for causing us to sin? Which is it are we standing on Satan's neck or is he running things and causing us to sin? You might want to see how that fits with your theology too. Or are we just going to toss that part out and just talk about the victory we had until we jumped off his neck.

Hi Ed,

Satan has not cause us to sin? He only tempted us. We sinned because of our unfaithfulness to God - lack of the Word - failure to heed the Holy Spirit and a host of other things.

If Wuest missed it... ??? How so?

[Justaned]

Hey Ed,

Read this:

(2:14) "Strong" is ischuros, which refers to power as an endowment. Strength to overcome Satan is part of the salvation given the believer. It takes the form of the spiritual energy supplied the yielded saint by the Holy Spirit. "Abide" is menō, "to dwell in as a home." The word of God, residing in their hearts in an unhindered, welcome state, was that which, together with the power of the Holy Spirit, gave "these young men victory over Satan, the Pernicious One, who sought to drag them down with himself into the ruin that some day will be his.

Translation: I write to you, fathers, because you have come to know experientially the One who is from the beginning, and are as a present result, possessors of that knowledge. I write to you, young men, because you are strong with endowed strength, and the Word of God in you is abiding, and you have gained the victory over the Pernicious One, and as a present result are standing on his neck.

Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest's Word Studies – Volume 2: Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1973), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 125.

So you are saying the adjective to describe these young men is actually a teaching on how to overcome the wicked one?
How do you know their youth wasn't the reason or their strength wasn't?
Does this mean that old men can't overcome the wicked one?
Or weak men? Or people that don't have the word in them?

Is this sort like works? To be saved you have to memorized scripture so you can overcome the wicked one?

Which is it believe in Christ or memorizing the word? You tell me.


I want to thank you Bibleman, Victorydub, Rocky as I never could understand how some WOF teachers taught what they taught and you never challenged them. Now I know. If nothing else that lesson was worth all the time I wasted on this thread.
As I said if Victorydub is happy with what he said in video, fantastic it fits right in with other WOF teaching.

Oh by the way you are using another of those deceived and filthy Calvinist to try to prove your point, which I think you missed in what he was saying.

One more small question if we are standing on Satan's neck then how can we blame Satan for causing us to sin? Which is it are we standing on Satan's neck or is he running things and causing us to sin? You might want to see how that fits with your theology too. Or are we just going to toss that part out and just talk about the victory we had until we jumped off his neck.

Hi Ed,

Satan has not cause us to sin? He only tempted us. We sinned because of our unfaithfulness to God - lack of the Word - failure to heed the Holy Spirit and a host of other things.

If Wuest missed it... ??? How so?

If we are standing on Satan's neck how is tempting us?

[bibleman]

Hey Ed,

Read this:

(2:14) "Strong" is ischuros, which refers to power as an endowment. Strength to overcome Satan is part of the salvation given the believer. It takes the form of the spiritual energy supplied the yielded saint by the Holy Spirit. "Abide" is menō, "to dwell in as a home." The word of God, residing in their hearts in an unhindered, welcome state, was that which, together with the power of the Holy Spirit, gave "these young men victory over Satan, the Pernicious One, who sought to drag them down with himself into the ruin that some day will be his.

Translation: I write to you, fathers, because you have come to know experientially the One who is from the beginning, and are as a present result, possessors of that knowledge. I write to you, young men, because you are strong with endowed strength, and the Word of God in you is abiding, and you have gained the victory over the Pernicious One, and as a present result are standing on his neck.

Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest's Word Studies – Volume 2: Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1973), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 125.

So you are saying the adjective to describe these young men is actually a teaching on how to overcome the wicked one?
How do you know their youth wasn't the reason or their strength wasn't?
Does this mean that old men can't overcome the wicked one?
Or weak men? Or people that don't have the word in them?

Is this sort like works? To be saved you have to memorized scripture so you can overcome the wicked one?

Which is it believe in Christ or memorizing the word? You tell me.


I want to thank you Bibleman, Victorydub, Rocky as I never could understand how some WOF teachers taught what they taught and you never challenged them. Now I know. If nothing else that lesson was worth all the time I wasted on this thread.
As I said if Victorydub is happy with what he said in video, fantastic it fits right in with other WOF teaching.

Oh by the way you are using another of those deceived and filthy Calvinist to try to prove your point, which I think you missed in what he was saying.

One more small question if we are standing on Satan's neck then how can we blame Satan for causing us to sin? Which is it are we standing on Satan's neck or is he running things and causing us to sin? You might want to see how that fits with your theology too. Or are we just going to toss that part out and just talk about the victory we had until we jumped off his neck.

Hi Ed,

Satan has not cause us to sin? He only tempted us. We sinned because of our unfaithfulness to God - lack of the Word - failure to heed the Holy Spirit and a host of other things.

If Wuest missed it... ??? How so?

If we are standing on Satan's neck how is tempting us?

With his feet or his hands! (smile)

[branham1965]

REVED
are you are saying without the Lord Jesus Christ and His Hand we are nothing.

i think that is what you are trying to express.without Him we can do nothing.John15.
the battle is the LORD'S.not ours.

Hey Ed,

Read this:

(2:14) "Strong" is ischuros, which refers to power as an endowment. Strength to overcome Satan is part of the salvation given the believer. It takes the form of the spiritual energy supplied the yielded saint by the Holy Spirit. "Abide" is menō, "to dwell in as a home." The word of God, residing in their hearts in an unhindered, welcome state, was that which, together with the power of the Holy Spirit, gave "these young men victory over Satan, the Pernicious One, who sought to drag them down with himself into the ruin that some day will be his.

Translation: I write to you, fathers, because you have come to know experientially the One who is from the beginning, and are as a present result, possessors of that knowledge. I write to you, young men, because you are strong with endowed strength, and the Word of God in you is abiding, and you have gained the victory over the Pernicious One, and as a present result are standing on his neck.

Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest's Word Studies – Volume 2: Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1973), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 125.

So you are saying the adjective to describe these young men is actually a teaching on how to overcome the wicked one?
How do you know their youth wasn't the reason or their strength wasn't?
Does this mean that old men can't overcome the wicked one?
Or weak men? Or people that don't have the word in them?

Is this sort like works? To be saved you have to memorized scripture so you can overcome the wicked one?

Which is it believe in Christ or memorizing the word? You tell me.


I want to thank you Bibleman, Victorydub, Rocky as I never could understand how some WOF teachers taught what they taught and you never challenged them. Now I know. If nothing else that lesson was worth all the time I wasted on this thread.
As I said if Victorydub is happy with what he said in video, fantastic it fits right in with other WOF teaching.

Oh by the way you are using another of those deceived and filthy Calvinist to try to prove your point, which I think you missed in what he was saying.

One more small question if we are standing on Satan's neck then how can we blame Satan for causing us to sin? Which is it are we standing on Satan's neck or is he running things and causing us to sin? You might want to see how that fits with your theology too. Or are we just going to toss that part out and just talk about the victory we had until we jumped off his neck.

Hi Ed,

Satan has not cause us to sin? He only tempted us. We sinned because of our unfaithfulness to God - lack of the Word - failure to heed the Holy Spirit and a host of other things.

If Wuest missed it... ??? How so?

If we are standing on Satan's neck how is tempting us?

[Rocky]

Rocky This verse does not speak on how to over come the wicked one it simply says you have overcome the wicked one.
There are three adjectives given for these young men (four if you include young) 1 they are strong, 2 the word abided in them, 3 they have over come the the wicked one.
To take the second adjective and say that is how they over came the wicked one violates what the verse actually says.

If you can't see that then I can clearly understand how you believe what you do. You simply can't read.

Did they ever teach sentence diagramming in your school? If they did diagram this sentence and then tell me how it is a teaching on over coming the wicked one.

Wow Ed that was a bit condescending poopy pants
Ok first of all Ed let me give a little background on the book of 1 John. As you know the book was addressing gnostic teachings that were creeping in the church. . Chapters two and three are addressing the Gnostic view that one can sin in the body, but the condition of the soul, or spirit rather stays the same. So one can walk in sin and still remain in Christ. I do not have a problem with Troy using verse 14 as his foundational scripture because what he is saying is true. I think you are just being nick picky for no reason