Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Who is in control?

[bibleman]

I man could simply choose not to sin then why did man need Jesus?

How did Jesus death and resurrection effect the interaction between man and sin?

What is the point of becoming a New Creation if you can just go back in roll in the mud like the old man did?

Why is Jesus called Lord everywhere in scripture if in fact he really isn't Lord of us or is only Lord in name only since none of us have to listen and obey Him.

Why is Salvation always reduced down to man obeying or not obeying, sinning or not sinning. Wasn't there something else missing that required man to be born again, to become a new creation, for Jesus to die and rise from the cross?

Think about what you guys are advocating. It is all about man.

UH OH!

Ed, you have now gone hyper grace as well!

[Justaned]

I man could simply choose not to sin then why did man need Jesus?

How did Jesus death and resurrection effect the interaction between man and sin?

What is the point of becoming a New Creation if you can just go back in roll in the mud like the old man did?

Why is Jesus called Lord everywhere in scripture if in fact he really isn't Lord of us or is only Lord in name only since none of us have to listen and obey Him.

Why is Salvation always reduced down to man obeying or not obeying, sinning or not sinning. Wasn't there something else missing that required man to be born again, to become a new creation, for Jesus to die and rise from the cross?

Think about what you guys are advocating. It is all about man.

UH OH!

Ed, you have now gone hyper grace as well!

Hyper grace???????????

Are you a new creation or not???????

And if so what did that do?

[branham1965]

thats a riot Rocky.....

If a believer has made the conscious decision to submit to Jesus' Lordship the his behavior and actions are controlled by Jesus. If the believer still retains control Jesus is not his Lord, or is only in word only.

We are given the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us, we also are commanded to be in relationship with Jesus as our Lord. Therefore if we maintain that relationship our actions and behaviors are controlled by God.

● Is an interruption of such control of the believer's actions and behavior possible? If so, how?
Evidently, and I don't understand exactly how but Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 say it is possible. However when that occurs again according the Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 scripture says there no longer remains a sacrifice for the their sin.

Again I'm not saying a Christian can not sin, in fact 1 John us anyone that makes that claim is a liar. What I'm saying is no true Christian will willfully and deliberately sin as long as Jesus is truly Lord of their life.

Too much of modern day theology puts man in control of things man can't control. If man could control sin then Jesus would not have had to die on the cross. Man couldn't control sin so He gave HIs Son to died for us. So that who ever believes to the point of total dependence on Jesus for control of their sin will be saved. As long as man holds back and refuses to allow Jesus to Lord of his life, as long as man demands his right to make decisions about spiritual things that he know nothing about man has not made Jesus Lord of his life.

Not going to use a label, not going to use a label, Don't say it Rocky.... Awww Cant over come ....not wanting to use..... a label. Even though...... been arguing and asking for fifty threads, Fifty threads !!!!....... And now finally he shows his views.. that I all ready knew.....Cant say ....it.... I fell like.......
[video][/video]

[Rocky]

I man could simply choose not to sin then why did man need Jesus?

How did Jesus death and resurrection effect the interaction between man and sin?

What is the point of becoming a New Creation if you can just go back in roll in the mud like the old man did?

Why is Jesus called Lord everywhere in scripture if in fact he really isn't Lord of us or is only Lord in name only since none of us have to listen and obey Him.

Why is Salvation always reduced down to man obeying or not obeying, sinning or not sinning. Wasn't there something else missing that required man to be born again, to become a new creation, for Jesus to die and rise from the cross?

Think about what you guys are advocating. It is all about man.

UH OH!

Ed, you have now gone hyper grace as well!

I know it seems like hyper grace and it may be. But I believe it is just a theology that I won't mentioned that has its it roots in another theology that I won't mention, that is taught by a certain preacher that I will not name because if I do that someone gets really mad. But it is a theology that teaches if you are a real Christian you are prevented from sinning by God.
But Ed is not completely adhering to the unmentioned theologies because he will say a Christian is controlled by God to prevent someone from sinning but some how they can actually sin even though he said the Christian is unable to, that if the Christian some how breaks away from the control and does sin he cant be reconciled to God if he sins. Also, but if he does sin he was not really save in the first place. Which will result in the person reading those ideas to go a squirrel killing spree with a pair of pantyhose on their head on top of a clock tower, shooting at the unsuspecting squirrels below... Now where did I put that pair of pantyhose.....

[victoryword]

Not going to use a label, not going to use a label, Don't say it Rocky.... Awww Cant over come ....not wanting to use..... a label. Even though...... been arguing and asking for fifty threads, Fifty threads !!!!....... And now finally he shows his views.. that I all ready knew.....Cant say ....it.... I fell like.......
[video][/video]

Rocky, we need to talk about these temper tantrums of yours. That's very expensive equipment you keep breaking on our starships. The Federation is NOT amused.

[Justaned]

I man could simply choose not to sin then why did man need Jesus?

How did Jesus death and resurrection effect the interaction between man and sin?

What is the point of becoming a New Creation if you can just go back in roll in the mud like the old man did?

Why is Jesus called Lord everywhere in scripture if in fact he really isn't Lord of us or is only Lord in name only since none of us have to listen and obey Him.

Why is Salvation always reduced down to man obeying or not obeying, sinning or not sinning. Wasn't there something else missing that required man to be born again, to become a new creation, for Jesus to die and rise from the cross?

Think about what you guys are advocating. It is all about man.

UH OH!

Ed, you have now gone hyper grace as well!

I know it seems like hyper grace and it may be. But I believe it is just a theology that I won't mentioned that has its it roots in another theology that I won't mention, that is taught by a certain preacher that I will not name because if I do that someone gets really mad. But it is a theology that teaches if you are a real Christian you are prevented from sinning by God.
But Ed is not completely adhering to the unmentioned theologies because he will say a Christian is controlled by God to prevent someone from sinning but some how they can actually sin even though he said the Christian is unable to, that if the Christian some how breaks away from the control and does sin he cant be reconciled to God if he sins. Also, but if he does sin he was not really save in the first place. Which will result in the person reading those ideas to go a squirrel killing spree with a pair of pantyhose on their head on top of a clock tower, shooting at the unsuspecting squirrels below... Now where did I put that pair of pantyhose.....

Where did I say you are prevented from sinning?
Didn't I say Christians sin and if anyone denies he sins he is liar.
So what are you talking about?

[bibleman]

I man could simply choose not to sin then why did man need Jesus?

How did Jesus death and resurrection effect the interaction between man and sin?

What is the point of becoming a New Creation if you can just go back in roll in the mud like the old man did?

Why is Jesus called Lord everywhere in scripture if in fact he really isn't Lord of us or is only Lord in name only since none of us have to listen and obey Him.

Why is Salvation always reduced down to man obeying or not obeying, sinning or not sinning. Wasn't there something else missing that required man to be born again, to become a new creation, for Jesus to die and rise from the cross?

Think about what you guys are advocating. It is all about man.

UH OH!

Ed, you have now gone hyper grace as well!

I know it seems like hyper grace and it may be. But I believe it is just a theology that I won't mentioned that has its it roots in another theology that I won't mention, that is taught by a certain preacher that I will not name because if I do that someone gets really mad. But it is a theology that teaches if you are a real Christian you are prevented from sinning by God.
But Ed is not completely adhering to the unmentioned theologies because he will say a Christian is controlled by God to prevent someone from sinning but some how they can actually sin even though he said the Christian is unable to, that if the Christian some how breaks away from the control and does sin he cant be reconciled to God if he sins. Also, but if he does sin he was not really save in the first place. Which will result in the person reading those ideas to go a squirrel killing spree with a pair of pantyhose on their head on top of a clock tower, shooting at the unsuspecting squirrels below... Now where did I put that pair of pantyhose.....

Where did I say you are prevented from sinning?
Didn't I say Christians sin and if anyone denies he sins he is liar.
So what are you talking about?

I thought you said Christians would not WILLING sin!

[Justaned]

I man could simply choose not to sin then why did man need Jesus?

How did Jesus death and resurrection effect the interaction between man and sin?

What is the point of becoming a New Creation if you can just go back in roll in the mud like the old man did?

Why is Jesus called Lord everywhere in scripture if in fact he really isn't Lord of us or is only Lord in name only since none of us have to listen and obey Him.

Why is Salvation always reduced down to man obeying or not obeying, sinning or not sinning. Wasn't there something else missing that required man to be born again, to become a new creation, for Jesus to die and rise from the cross?

Think about what you guys are advocating. It is all about man.

UH OH!

Ed, you have now gone hyper grace as well!

I know it seems like hyper grace and it may be. But I believe it is just a theology that I won't mentioned that has its it roots in another theology that I won't mention, that is taught by a certain preacher that I will not name because if I do that someone gets really mad. But it is a theology that teaches if you are a real Christian you are prevented from sinning by God.
But Ed is not completely adhering to the unmentioned theologies because he will say a Christian is controlled by God to prevent someone from sinning but some how they can actually sin even though he said the Christian is unable to, that if the Christian some how breaks away from the control and does sin he cant be reconciled to God if he sins. Also, but if he does sin he was not really save in the first place. Which will result in the person reading those ideas to go a squirrel killing spree with a pair of pantyhose on their head on top of a clock tower, shooting at the unsuspecting squirrels below... Now where did I put that pair of pantyhose.....

Where did I say you are prevented from sinning?
Didn't I say Christians sin and if anyone denies he sins he is liar.
So what are you talking about?

I thought you said Christians would not WILLING sin!

I did! Do you think Christians willingly sin? If so how are they any different that non Christians?

Here argue with scripture.
1 John 3:6 (NKJV)
6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

1 John 3:9 (NKJV)
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:18 (NKJV)
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

1 Peter 4:1 (NKJV)
1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,

Romans 6:22 (NKJV)
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Romans 6:16 (NKJV)
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans 6:11 (NKJV)
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Justaned]

1 John 3:4-10 (NLT)
4 Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God.
5 And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him.
6 Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.
7 Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.
8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil.
9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they CAN'T keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.


Tell me Rocky did you see the word CAN"T that means Can not, will not

[bibleman]

I man could simply choose not to sin then why did man need Jesus?

How did Jesus death and resurrection effect the interaction between man and sin?

What is the point of becoming a New Creation if you can just go back in roll in the mud like the old man did?

Why is Jesus called Lord everywhere in scripture if in fact he really isn't Lord of us or is only Lord in name only since none of us have to listen and obey Him.

Why is Salvation always reduced down to man obeying or not obeying, sinning or not sinning. Wasn't there something else missing that required man to be born again, to become a new creation, for Jesus to die and rise from the cross?

Think about what you guys are advocating. It is all about man.

UH OH!

Ed, you have now gone hyper grace as well!

I know it seems like hyper grace and it may be. But I believe it is just a theology that I won't mentioned that has its it roots in another theology that I won't mention, that is taught by a certain preacher that I will not name because if I do that someone gets really mad. But it is a theology that teaches if you are a real Christian you are prevented from sinning by God.
But Ed is not completely adhering to the unmentioned theologies because he will say a Christian is controlled by God to prevent someone from sinning but some how they can actually sin even though he said the Christian is unable to, that if the Christian some how breaks away from the control and does sin he cant be reconciled to God if he sins. Also, but if he does sin he was not really save in the first place. Which will result in the person reading those ideas to go a squirrel killing spree with a pair of pantyhose on their head on top of a clock tower, shooting at the unsuspecting squirrels below... Now where did I put that pair of pantyhose.....

Where did I say you are prevented from sinning?
Didn't I say Christians sin and if anyone denies he sins he is liar.
So what are you talking about?

I thought you said Christians would not WILLING sin!

I did! Do you think Christians willingly sin? If so how are they any different that non Christians?

Here argue with scripture.
1 John 3:6 (NKJV)
6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

1 John 3:9 (NKJV)
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:18 (NKJV)
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

1 Peter 4:1 (NKJV)
1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,

Romans 6:22 (NKJV)
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Romans 6:16 (NKJV)
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans 6:11 (NKJV)
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Well Ed,

In your last comment just above you said: "Didn't I say Christians sin and if anyone denies he sins he is liar."

So there you say Christians sin and then right after that you say Christians don't sin!

Ed, you are loosing what is left of your mind!