Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHEN heb 6 and 10 apply

[Justaned]

Thanks Billy!

i think you are rock solid REVED.

Ed, did you actually read my reply to victoryword? You are just trolling these forums.

Better question is did you actually read my reply to your last post which I quoted on Backslidding?

Yes it was just more rubbish

Why is it you can call it names but you can't talk directly to the two passages in question? Is it because to do so would require you to admit you have no idea? That you just heard a Christian can "backslide" and have accepted it as truth?
Or is it because you experienced it or at least think you have?
Ed, a lot of us have, you just dismiss it and then get offensive and act like a martyr and cry that you are being attacked or unfairly labled But I will address these scriptures when I came back, I need coffee. But I do want you to know, even though I highly disagree with you on a lot of you ideas. I do think you are smart and I know you love the lord. However you are very confusing and have a lot of what I believe reformed theology views, which are confusing in of itself. I renounce all of that theology there is nothing about Calvinism that is Biblical or even Christian. And I see as someone who is trying to spread this heretical theology on this forum. Do you even own a DARB? Because every post I see you do is totally the opposite of everything Finis Dake taught. Why is that?
Unless you directly speak to the two passages in question I and everyone else must assume you have nothing.

Call this double talk call it rubbish but the fact remains you can not and have not answered the question.

Ed, a lot of us have, you just dismiss it and then get offensive and act like a martyr and cry that you are being attacked or unfairly labeled. But I will address these scriptures when I came back, I need coffee. But I do want you to know, even though I highly disagree with you on a lot of your ideas. I do think you are smart and I know you love the lord. However you are very confusing and have a lot of what I believe reformed theology type views, which are confusing in of itself. I renounce all of that theology there is nothing about Calvinism that is Biblical or even Christian. And I see as someone who is trying to spread this heretical theology on this forum. Do you even own a DARB? Because every post I see you do is totally the opposite of everything Finis Dake taught. Why is that?

[Rocky]

Some we totally disagree on but I usually stay away from them since everyone hates me when I show Dake to be wrong

Wow Ed, What an arrogant statement, You have a lot of pride in yourself. This is a dake Forum you do realize that right? I understand that not every one is going agree 100% on every thing, but to make that statements about Dake is kind of trollish. Go a head be in the dark, and spread all of this false theology you want, most of us see right through it anyway, well maybe not Billy lol . I just pray that you just don't teach this stuff to some new Christian, and confuse them and lead them astray. I am not going to allow you to fill my head with your nonsense. And, I never said anything that contradicts Dakes teaching on this. You are even trying to twist Dake's teaching on this, just like you do the bible. There is such a bad spirit in your posts and replies. I feel like devils are trying to beat me on the head every time I read them. It was people like you why I turned my back on the lord years ago, I was being confused and taught unbiblical things. You sow discard brother and that is the truth. I believe The Lord gave me strong discernment when I Received the spirit Baptism and I discern a lot of Bad here, you are going to lead astray and confuse a lot of baby Christians if you are like this in person, especially if you are a minister..

[Justaned]

Some we totally disagree on but I usually stay away from them since everyone hates me when I show Dake to be wrong

Wow Ed, What an arrogant statement, You have a lot of pride in yourself. Go a head be in the dark, and spread all of this false theology you want, most of us see right through it anyway, well maybe not Billy lol All you do is troll this forum, You are full of pride and discord. And your ideas are insane. I just pray that you just don't teach this stuff to some new Christian, and confuse him and lead him astray. I am not going to allow you to fill my head with your nonsense. And, I never said anything that contradicts Dakes teaching on this. You are even trying to twist Dake's teaching on this, just like you do the bible. If I were Leon I would be deleting half you your threads and post so other don't get confused, there is such a bad spirit in your posts and replies. I feel like devils are trying to beat me on the head every time I read them..

Rocky
Read what you wrote.
There is no new evidence of any kind to prove your point. Nothing that is even constructive. All you do is make accusations. If I twisted Dake's teaching as you say or the scripture it should be very easy to pin point exactly where, but you don't. You say Bibleman should be deleteing half my threads but no where do you point to something I say and offer any kind of proof of their falsehood.

Rocky is this really how a born again Christian behaves? Do you really think so?
I have never once accused you, called you some name, I have never claimed anything that isn't clearly stated in scripture or found in the writting of Dake yet you say you feel like demons are beating your head.

Just take a moment and think about that statement. That devils or demons are beating your head.

[Rocky]

Rocky
Read what you wrote.
There is no new evidence of any kind to prove your point. Nothing that is even constructive. All you do is make accusations. If I twisted Dake's teaching as you say or the scripture it should be very easy to pin point exactly where, but you don't. You say Bibleman should be deleteing half my threads but no where do you point to something I say and offer any kind of proof of their falsehood.

Rocky is this really how a born again Christian behaves? Do you really think so?
I have never once accused you, called you some name, I have never claimed anything that isn't clearly stated in scripture or found in the writting of Dake yet you say you feel like demons are beating your head.

Just take a moment and think about that statement. That devils or demons are beating your head.

I want to go ram my head into a wall. Oh you are such a victim and a martyr Ed, it isn't my fault you are into some bad theology.. But you can get out of it if you would just quit thinking you know every thing. You seem to be very and stubborn, thats why I quit pointing things out to you....It will do no good If someone does, you just revert back to double talk and scripture twisting, so what's the point. This is the common with those that teach or adhere to false teachings. You are good at it I'll give you that much, You are even probably even more smarter and educated then myself, but still wrong, knowledge puffs up, and I believe I have the Holy Spirit.

[Justaned]

Rocky
Read what you wrote.
There is no new evidence of any kind to prove your point. Nothing that is even constructive. All you do is make accusations. If I twisted Dake's teaching as you say or the scripture it should be very easy to pin point exactly where, but you don't. You say Bibleman should be deleteing half my threads but no where do you point to something I say and offer any kind of proof of their falsehood.

Rocky is this really how a born again Christian behaves? Do you really think so?
I have never once accused you, called you some name, I have never claimed anything that isn't clearly stated in scripture or found in the writting of Dake yet you say you feel like demons are beating your head.

Just take a moment and think about that statement. That devils or demons are beating your head.

I want to go ram my head into a wall. Oh you are such a victim and a martyr Ed, it isn't my fault you are into some bad theology.. But you can get out of it if you would just quit thinking you know every thing. I bet you are the type to walk up to preachers after they preach in point out there errors after they have preached their sermons. You seem to be very and stubborn, thats why I quit point things out to you....

Once again no content just accusations and basically calling me names.
Where is your proof? Where is your supporting scripture? Where is anything that says I'm wrong other than your rants?

I have never pointed out an error to a Preacher. I have walked out or simply stopped listening but I have never said a word. On the other hand I have often gone up to pastors and told them how excellent their theology was, how much I have learned from them and how blessed I was to be priveleged to sit under their teaching.

You have never pointed out anything to me that I recall other than how wrong was I was. But since you never supplied any evidence of those accusations I simply dismissed them.

Again the verses are

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NLT)
4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—
6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

and

Hebrews 10:26-27 (NLT)
26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.

I say it clearly says it is impossible since there remains no longer a sacrifice for the sins. That is exactly what Dake says.

So where is all this error you talk about?

[Rocky]

Ok this probably won't do any good. Oh I re edited my reply please read it. I admit I got a little aggravated Sorry. plus I am slow at replies because I am a horrid speller and have to spell check and proofread do to my dyxlexias. But I am just trying to help you brother. But yes, Like Dake I agree that there is a difference between An apostate and a regular backslider. One can be restored the other can't, but both have lost their salvation. I also agree with Dake on the definition of backsliding not yours. In a sense that is saying a Christian can live in sin and still hold his salvation. Which what seems to me to be what your definition of backsliding is. Now I may not be the sharpest knife in the in the bunch, but to me it sounds like a form of OSAS just a twist, here let me give an example Gal chapter 5:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Now the backslider indulges in most of these but you say a backslider is till saved. Do you understand what I mean now? Now apostate is a reprobate right. And maybe God has stopped dealing with them and turned them over. But both are not saved but the backslider can be restored but there is now more sacrifice for sin if he seeks to be justified by other means, and lay again the foundation or repentance. Remember "the soul the sins will die", sin incures the death penalty, so now one has do his first works over or he is lost. and confess to be cleansed of all unrighteousness









Edited for wanting to choke Ed lol

[Justaned]

Ok this probably won't do any good. Oh I re edited my reply please read it. I admit I got a little aggravated Sorry. plus I am slow t replies because I am a horrid speller and have to spell check and proofread do to my dyxlexias. But I am just trying to help you brother. But yes, Like Dake I agree that there is a difference between An apostate and a regular backslider. one can be restored the other can't but both have lost their salvation. I also agree with Dake' on the definition of backsliding not yours. In a sense that is saying a Christian can live in sin and still hold his salvation. Which what seem to me to be what you definition of backsliding. Now I may not be the sharpest knife in the in the bunch, but to me it sounds like a form of OSAS just a twist, here let me give an example Gal chapter 5:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Now backslider indulges in most of these but you say a backslider is till saved do you understand what I mean now.

No I said backslidder is not a New Testament term and as such has no definition.
Gal 5 that you quote let us put in context.

Galatians 5:16-26 (NKJV)
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

It says you either walk in the spirit or walk in the flesh. If you walk in the flesh you do all those things you mentioned. However if you walk in the spirit you don't. Now ask yourself a question can a true Christian walk in the flesh? Or do they manifest the fruit mentioned later in the passage, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control?

If a Christian is truly saved the must display self control, self control dictates you can't yield to fleshhy desires.

So what I'm saying is no true Christian engages into the sins you listed. Can't happen if it does then they simply were never saved because the fruit of the spirit was never manifested in their lives.

[Rocky]

. So what I'm saying is no true Christian engages into the sins you listed. Can't happen if it does then they simply were never saved because the fruit of the spirit was never manifested in their lives.

But you just used a scripture about Christians "sinning willfully"? And does not this position that take free will out of it, and in turn makes it a form of Calvinism? You see that don't you? Don't you see the double talk here? Don't you see that there is a lot that don't harmonize with this theology? You cant have both ways, you may have to renounce all of the 5 point Calvinistic Baptist theology(sorry Baptists) that you are mixing with other theology, you know poo or get off the pot

[Justaned]

. So what I'm saying is no true Christian engages into the sins you listed. Can't happen if it does then they simply were never saved because the fruit of the spirit was never manifested in their lives.

But you just used a scripture about Christians "sinning willfully"? And does not this position that take free will out of it, and in turn makes it a form of Calvinism? You see that don't you? Don't you see the double talk here? Don't you see that there is a lot that don't harmonize with this theology? You cant have both ways, you may have to renounce all of the 5 point Calvinistic Baptist theology(sorry Baptists) that you are mixing with other theology, you know poo or get off the pot

So are you saying to have free will be must be able to sin? Where is walking in the spirit? Where is obedience to Christ?
You either walk in the spirit or the flesh that is what Gal 5 is saying. I'm saying for a Christian to once again walk in the flesh you either have not been saved, made a new creation that walks in the spirit OR you have decided to go into apostasy.

You surely don't think a christian can be saved, find a babe and enter into adultery and then repent and be saved again and do this over and over?

That is walking in the flesh not the spirit. Can't happen to a real Christian just as Gal5 says. You are either walking in the flesh (unsaved, unregenerated) or you are walking in the spirit (saved, new creation, born again)

What do you think you are born again to? Walking in the flesh?

Don't worry about putting names on it think about what you are saying.

[Rocky]

Ed, This is still taking free will out. As a Christian, I still have the ability to sin if I chose to, But I chose to live for Christ and walk in the spirit. And again you just used a scripture that said a Christian can sin willfully. And I am sorry for using names that's how theology is described, we humans come up with labels to describe things :) You are trying to mix Arminianism and Calvinisism you must accept the bible to be one or the other, you can't have it both ways. That's why sometimes you get accused of double talking. Its walking in a perpetual oxymoron. The two theologies are so far from each other. You seem to be wanting it your way, almost as if the bible is a cafeteria. I'll have a little Arminianism with a side order of calvinism and maybe a little of that Catholicism and call EDism ,wow, what a big nasty plate of food you have there lol. No but really, in your attempts to mix Arminianism and Calvinism theology you have contradicted your self. One is right and one is wrong. In your attempts at Arminianism you say Christian can apostate while the Calvinistic side of you is saying a true Christian wont sin, ah but you just said a Christian can sin willfully, you also say but if he did he wasn't saved in the first place, hmm could it be your definition of backsliding is off, and maybe grace is actually conditional? which is it? Is any one else seeing this?