Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Thought Provoking OSAS

[Justaned]

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

Ed, that always bothered me about Luther.

??????? Luther personifies the reformation if he bothers you so should the whole of the reformation.

Want a real interesting read, go read a book on Luther written by someone that isn't a supporter of Luther or the Reformation or Protestantism. I would suggest the Catholic apologist Ken Hensley but I imagine the word Catholic has you heading for high ground by now.

[Reuben]

My statement was not made to lampoon Luther as a whole. I know why he said what he did about James. His zeal in reversing the stranglehold of a works based religion apart from grace sent him into being overly critical of James. It simply bothers me because of wanting to "rip it out" of the Bible (in his words) seemed a bit over the top and should have stirred him to investigate it more thoroughly.

[Justaned]

My statement was not made to lampoon Luther as a whole. I know why he said what he did about James. His zeal in reversing the stranglehold of a works based religion apart from grace sent him into being overly critical of James. It simply bothers me because of wanting to "rip it out" of the Bible (in his words) seemed a bit over the top and should have stirred him to investigate it more thoroughly.

That was my point, Reformers if you will followed Luther over the top so to speak.
However I Luther I have come to know if far different than the Luther that is painted by many pro Luther biographers.

His zeal was not so much of righting the wrongs of the church as was it was striking back at the religion of his father. Luther's father was very opinionated and very abusive. This greatly and adversely effected Luther. Many that supported Luther in the early stages of the Reformation realized later in time that much of what Luther did was an effort to over turn those things in the church that he deemed contributed to his father's character flaws. The problem was he was using what some would later say was a defective decision/reasoning making process to identify those. His view of the church's teachings on God was very much warped by the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father.

Very complex story and one most people never explore. I had the chance to listen to Hensley tell the "rest of the story" so to speak, which caused me to research Luther deeper than I believe most Protestants care to go.

[Rocky]

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

Ed, that always bothered me about Luther.

??????? Luther personifies the reformation if he bothers you so should the whole of the reformation.

Want a real interesting read, go read a book on Luther written by someone that isn't a supporter of Luther or the Reformation or Protestantism. I would suggest the Catholic apologist Ken Hensley but I imagine the word Catholic has you heading for high ground by now.

Hi Ed ,curious reply. Are you contemplating on becoming Catholic?

[Justaned]

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

Ed, that always bothered me about Luther.

??????? Luther personifies the reformation if he bothers you so should the whole of the reformation.

Want a real interesting read, go read a book on Luther written by someone that isn't a supporter of Luther or the Reformation or Protestantism. I would suggest the Catholic apologist Ken Hensley but I imagine the word Catholic has you heading for high ground by now.

Hi Ed ,curious reply. Are you contemplating on becoming Catholic?

Rocky
Are you serious? I mention a noted Catholic apologist and that makes me contemplating on becoming a Catholic? With that logic I guess if a I mentioned a noted marine biologist I would then be contemplating becoming a great white shark or if I mentioned a noted astrophysicist I would be thinking of becoming an astronaut.

The problem is most Protestants only know one side of the story of the reformation and only one side of the story on the reformers and few have any desire to learn the rest of the story. Sort of sad to think most have agreed to take a side when they really don't know what the other side is really saying. They only know what they have been told the other side has said.

Sorta like you accusing me of making judgments based based only on partial information such as appearance.

[Rocky]

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

Ed, that always bothered me about Luther.

??????? Luther personifies the reformation if he bothers you so should the whole of the reformation.

Want a real interesting read, go read a book on Luther written by someone that isn't a supporter of Luther or the Reformation or Protestantism. I would suggest the Catholic apologist Ken Hensley but I imagine the word Catholic has you heading for high ground by now.

Hi Ed ,curious reply. Are you contemplating on becoming Catholic?

Rocky
Are you serious? I mention a noted Catholic apologist and that makes me contemplating on becoming a Catholic? With that logic I guess if a I mentioned a noted marine biologist I would then be contemplating becoming a great white shark or if I mentioned a noted astrophysicist I would be thinking of becoming an astronaut.

The problem is most Protestants only know one side of the story of the reformation and only one side of the story on the reformers and few have any desire to learn the rest of the story. Sort of sad to think most have agreed to take a side when they really don't know what the other side is really saying. They only know what they have been told the other side has said.

Sorta like you accusing me of making judgments based based only on partial information such as appearance.

No sometimes your posts just seem to elude to the fact you are sorry for the reformation.

[Justaned]

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

Ed, that always bothered me about Luther.

??????? Luther personifies the reformation if he bothers you so should the whole of the reformation.

Want a real interesting read, go read a book on Luther written by someone that isn't a supporter of Luther or the Reformation or Protestantism. I would suggest the Catholic apologist Ken Hensley but I imagine the word Catholic has you heading for high ground by now.

Hi Ed ,curious reply. Are you contemplating on becoming Catholic?

Rocky
Are you serious? I mention a noted Catholic apologist and that makes me contemplating on becoming a Catholic? With that logic I guess if a I mentioned a noted marine biologist I would then be contemplating becoming a great white shark or if I mentioned a noted astrophysicist I would be thinking of becoming an astronaut.

The problem is most Protestants only know one side of the story of the reformation and only one side of the story on the reformers and few have any desire to learn the rest of the story. Sort of sad to think most have agreed to take a side when they really don't know what the other side is really saying. They only know what they have been told the other side has said.

Sorta like you accusing me of making judgments based based only on partial information such as appearance.

No sometimes your posts just seem to elude to the fact you are sorry for the reformation.

I am! Ever read of one of the last prayers Jesus prayed for us?

Jesus prayed for unity in the body.

Since the reformation and the ideas(???) spawned by it the body of Christ has become more and more fragmented. Ever hear of Bloody Mary, she tried to rid England of every non Church of England person. Most she burned at the stake.

The peasants of Germany were slaughtered by the tens of thousands as religious factions warred and pillaged the land. Even in recent history we see the Catholics of Northern Ireland fighting the Protestant of rest of the country.

Jesus knew the reformation was coming and it would divide and divide and divide again the body of Christ into a weakened mess we see it today.

Jesus taught on unity, think of His parable of the twigs where one is easily broken but bound together they become unbreakable.

Think for a moment how this world would be if every Christian was joined with every other Christian and lead in one direction.

Do you think we would have abortion? Homosexuality and same sex marriages? Human trafficking? Drug usage?
Child pornography? To the degree we have them today? Think about it if we spend one tenth the time, energy, money fighting these sins instead of fighting each other where we would be today.

Look at our behavior here on this forum alone. Hatred and vile accusations are thrown around like it is Jesus' desired behavior within the body of Christ.

Take a printout of this forum to any non Christian let them read it and then ask them if they want any part of the love within the body of Christ.

When I think of the damage the Reformation did to the Body of Christ I weep.

And no I'm not pro Catholic (so don't go there) but I am pro unified Body of Christ.

[Rocky]

Most Calvinist want to ignore the book of James. Luther wanted it removed from the Bible along with Revelations and Hebrews.
But the truth be told most non calvinist want to ignore the Book of James also.

Ed, that always bothered me about Luther.

??????? Luther personifies the reformation if he bothers you so should the whole of the reformation.

Want a real interesting read, go read a book on Luther written by someone that isn't a supporter of Luther or the Reformation or Protestantism. I would suggest the Catholic apologist Ken Hensley but I imagine the word Catholic has you heading for high ground by now.

Hi Ed ,curious reply. Are you contemplating on becoming Catholic?

Rocky
Are you serious? I mention a noted Catholic apologist and that makes me contemplating on becoming a Catholic? With that logic I guess if a I mentioned a noted marine biologist I would then be contemplating becoming a great white shark or if I mentioned a noted astrophysicist I would be thinking of becoming an astronaut.

The problem is most Protestants only know one side of the story of the reformation and only one side of the story on the reformers and few have any desire to learn the rest of the story. Sort of sad to think most have agreed to take a side when they really don't know what the other side is really saying. They only know what they have been told the other side has said.

Sorta like you accusing me of making judgments based based only on partial information such as appearance.

No sometimes your posts just seem to elude to the fact you are sorry for the reformation.

I am! Ever read of one of the last prayers Jesus prayed for us?

Jesus prayed for unity in the body.

Since the reformation and the ideas(???) spawned by it the body of Christ has become more and more fragmented. Ever hear of Bloody Mary, she tried to rid England of every non Church of England person. Most she burned at the stake.

The peasants of Germany were slaughtered by the tens of thousands as religious factions warred and pillaged the land. Even in recent history we see the Catholics of Northern Ireland fighting the Protestant of rest of the country.

Jesus knew the reformation was coming and it would divide and divide and divide again the body of Christ into a weakened mess we see it today.

Jesus taught on unity, think of His parable of the twigs where one is easily broken but bound together they become unbreakable.

Think for a moment how this world would be if every Christian was joined with every other Christian and lead in one direction.

Do you think we would have abortion? Homosexuality and same sex marriages? Human trafficking? Drug usage?
Child pornography? To the degree we have them today? Think about it if we spend one tenth the time, energy, money fighting these sins instead of fighting each other where we would be today.

Look at our behavior here on this forum alone. Hatred and vile accusations are thrown around like it is Jesus' desired behavior within the body of Christ.

Take a printout of this forum to any non Christian let them read it and then ask them if they want any part of the love within the body of Christ.

When I think of the damage the Reformation did to the Body of Christ I weep.

And no I'm not pro Catholic (so don't go there) but I am pro unified Body of Christ.

I want unity as well. But so you wish we were all still Roman catholic? Because that is what I get out of this reply.

[Justaned]

I want unity as well. But so you wish we were all still Roman catholic? Because that is what I get out of this reply.

Unity is unity what you call it is not as important as the unity itself.
Think about this, what if the religious reformers had stuck with their plan and not allowed the political wantabe's get involved.

Is it possible the Catholic church could have been reformed without dividing it, without destroying that good that it did contain?
I believe it could have been.

I also believe much to the dismay of most Protestants and most Catholics that percentage wise there will be as many Catholics in Heaven as there are Protestants.

[Reuben]

Rocky, the next time you speak with a devout Catholic; ask them if they are a born-again Christian. You may be surprised at the answer they give you. I've known Catholics very well throughout the years and they were devout - not in name only. One of my best friends growing up was a devout catholic. Another family I knew well was in our church believe it or not. Of course they came out of it but his family were staunch catholic and I got to know the parents well to. This is to name a few. The one thing that always stood out to me when it came to Catholics were their view on salvation. After I was born-again and then later in ministry I investigated the "why" and found out it was in their teaching that created the confusion.

Also, I didn't mean for this thread to go in this direction but to remain on the OSAS doctrine. However, if we want to discuss the Catholic heresies compared to the Protestant views then maybe we should start another thread?