Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ There is no man that sinneth not

[Ironman]

King Saul had the Holy Spirit, 1 Sam. 10:10, And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

[branham1965]

I agree with you Ironman.

[Ironman]

I agree with you Ironman.

Thanks Billy. This is what many fail to realise or believe. Scripture shows that the gift of the Holy Spirit can be abused. Solomon, while in a backslidden state used the gift of wisdom and knowledge to further his own rebellion against God (Eccl. 1:12-18; 2:4-11). The wisdom and knowledge God gave Solomon became part of his natural ability, and he continued to use them while backslidden. Any knowledge that a man learns by Divine revelation, or by experience, or by being taught, he can still use whether saved or not, because it becomes part of his mental knowledge and wisdom.

Moses misused his gift of miricals, and therefore, for smiting the rock instead of speaking to the rock as God instructed him, he was forbidden to enter Canaan (Num. 20:7-13; Deut. 32:48-52). Paul taught that one may have the gifts of the spirit, and still not love, and they would profit nothing (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

"Though I may speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity [Divine Love], I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And although I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and although I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

Paul further corrected many abuses of the gifts of the spirit in local churches as is clear in (1 Cor. 14:1-40).

Are the gifts permanent or temporary?

They are always permanent if they are real gifts, as given to any person. There are no doctrins of a temporary gift or calling from God mentioned in Scripture. God, when He see's it proper to give gifts or to call a person to some particular work in life, does not change His mind regarding the giving of the gifts. When a person who has been given a particular gift backslides, God will cease to use the person, but if and when the person comes back to God his original gifts and calling are there to be exercised through him again. Although we wood be foolish in saying that when God spoke through the ass that the dumb animal had recieved a permament gift to speak. God just used the animal.

[Hill Top]

I agree with you Ironman.

Thanks Billy. This is what many fail to realise or believe. Scripture shows that the gift of the Holy Spirit can be abused. Solomon, while in a backslidden state used the gift of wisdom and knowledge to further his own rebellion against God (Eccl. 1:12-18; 2:4-11). The wisdom and knowledge God gave Solomon became part of his natural ability, and he continued to use them while backslidden. Any knowledge that a man learns by Divine revelation, or by experience, or by being taught, he can still use whether saved or not, because it becomes part of his mental knowledge and wisdom.

Moses misused his gift of miricals, and therefore, for smiting the rock instead of speaking to the rock as God instructed him, he was forbidden to enter Canaan (Num. 20:7-13; Deut. 32:48-52). Paul taught that one may have the gifts of the spirit, and still not love, and they would profit nothing (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

"Though I may speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity [Divine Love], I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And although I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and although I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

Paul further corrected many abuses of the gifts of the spirit in local churches as is clear in (1 Cor. 14:1-40).

Are the gifts permanent or temporary?

They are always permanent if they are real gifts, as given to any person. There are no doctrines of a temporary gift or calling from God mentioned in Scripture.

God, when He see's it proper to give gifts or to call a person to some particular work in life, does not change His mind regarding the giving of the gifts.

When a person who has been given a particular gift backslides, God will cease to use the person, but if and when the person comes back to God his original gifts and calling are there to be exercised through him again.

Although we would be foolish in saying that when God spoke through the ass that the dumb animal had received a permanent gift to speak. God just used the animal.

I appreciate your usage of scrip' to validate your points.
But I must remind you that the gift of the Holy Ghost in the OT was quite different than in the NT.
As you asked/stated... "Are the gifts permanent or temporary? They are always permanent if they are real gifts..." I see in 1 Sam 18:10-12 that "the Lord...was departed from Saul", and that "the evil spirit came upon Saul".
Gifts have been shown to be temporary.
And as you also said that "God just used the animal."...some gifts are for the sole purpose of doing God's will on a single occasion and can be taken away later.
I don't see any documented person in the NT who had the Spirit, then losing it.
In my opinion, God now only gives the gift of the Holy Ghost to those who will permanently turn from sin. And the same applies to any presumed gifts of the Spirit...though I am not as certain about the permanence of that.
God is free to allow one to heal, or prophesy, in a single case if it shows the power and glory of God for a certain purpose.
A sin would show they did not have the seed of God in them to begin with. (1 John 3:9)
Please be aware that the devil can also do miracles, and that not every miracle one encounters is from God.
We musn't use miracles as a determining factor in crediting someone with a gift of the Spirit from God.

[luchnia]

The gifts of the Spirit have nothing to do with one sinning. The Holy Spirit indwelling has everything to do with one sinning. The Spirit will not be involved with sin, won't happen and cannot as scripture shows. When people say they sin and still say they have the Holy Spirit that is in error.

Certainly one that has a gift can sin because a gift can remain, just as one who once had the Spirit and the Spirit left such a one can sin. No such thing as a sinning saint and never will be. One sinning is not a child of God as scripture is clear on. The sinner is a child of the devil and must repent, forsake sin, and turn to God or be lost.

This was posted before, yet here are some differences (there are many) between the saint who belongs to God and the sinner who is perishing and without God.

Sinner:
not dead to sin
not alive to Christ
obeys the lust of sin
yields to unrighteousness
obeys sin unto spiritual death
servant of sin
yielded to uncleanness
has fruit of sin
in the flesh
not delivered
condemned
minds the things of the flesh
enmity against God
cannot please God
Christ not indwelling them
not quickened
does not love God
a son of the devil
lives after the flesh
not Spirit led
bondage to sin
not an heir or joint heir with Christ
has no hope of salvation
Spirit does not intercede
not on God's side

The saint:
dead to sin
walks in newness of life
old man is crucified
freed from sin
alive to God through Christ
sin has no dominion
servant of God
delivered
not condemned
walks after the Spirit
has life and peace
not in the flesh
quickened by the Spirit
a son of God
partakes of the divine nature
in the Spirit
loves God
justified and glorified
has the Spirit of Christ
has God on his side

[branham1965]

thanks Haz.people backslid in both testaments

I agree with you Ironman.

Thanks Billy. This is what many fail to realise or believe. Scripture shows that the gift of the Holy Spirit can be abused. Solomon, while in a backslidden state used the gift of wisdom and knowledge to further his own rebellion against God (Eccl. 1:12-18; 2:4-11). The wisdom and knowledge God gave Solomon became part of his natural ability, and he continued to use them while backslidden. Any knowledge that a man learns by Divine revelation, or by experience, or by being taught, he can still use whether saved or not, because it becomes part of his mental knowledge and wisdom.

Moses misused his gift of miricals, and therefore, for smiting the rock instead of speaking to the rock as God instructed him, he was forbidden to enter Canaan (Num. 20:7-13; Deut. 32:48-52). Paul taught that one may have the gifts of the spirit, and still not love, and they would profit nothing (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

"Though I may speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity [Divine Love], I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And although I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and although I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

Paul further corrected many abuses of the gifts of the spirit in local churches as is clear in (1 Cor. 14:1-40).

Are the gifts permanent or temporary?

They are always permanent if they are real gifts, as given to any person. There are no doctrines of a temporary gift or calling from God mentioned in Scripture.

God, when He see's it proper to give gifts or to call a person to some particular work in life, does not change His mind regarding the giving of the gifts.

When a person who has been given a particular gift backslides, God will cease to use the person, but if and when the person comes back to God his original gifts and calling are there to be exercised through him again.

Although we would be foolish in saying that when God spoke through the ass that the dumb animal had received a permanent gift to speak. God just used the animal.
Phil

[luchnia]

people backslid in both testaments [/size]

Yep, so true, backsliders are in both testaments. Backsliders perish in eternal torments and hell and eternal torments are awaiting those in sin now. Broad is the way as Jesus said. No doubt, hell's gates are open wide for the children of the devil.

[Hill Top]

The gifts of the Spirit have nothing to do with one sinning.

Nothing but the exclusion of the sinner from Godly works.

The Holy Spirit indwelling has everything to do with one sinning. The Spirit will not be involved with sin, won't happen and cannot as scripture shows. When people say they sin and still say they have the Holy Spirit that is in error.

Amen.

[Hill Top]

When a person who has been given a particular gift backslides, God will cease to use the person, but if and when the person comes back to God his original gifts and calling are there to be exercised through him again.

Scripture, please.
Men who manifest that they are of the devil don't receive Spiritual gifts.

Although we would be foolish in saying that when God spoke through the ass that the dumb animal had received a permanent gift to speak. God just used the animal.

Why can't God do something with men that He has already done with animals?

[branham1965]

no one believes like you do Phil.you deny the divine trinity,you deny real salvation by grace through faith...you deny every doctrine of Reverend Finis Dake ever taught...

what is your point???