Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ I'm tired of fake Christians who call themselves sinners

[branham1965]

Great posts Haz.

Here is dream land: Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Which part of the above scripture states one in sin will inherit the kingdom of God? I don't think any of us are claiming we cannot fall, but we know without a doubt that we must repent and forsake sin just as David - just as Peter or we are doomed to eternal death. What we are claiming is what God's word says about sin and nothing more. If you have not the Spirit of Christ you are none of His. How can we say otherwise and be true to God? How can we say we have a spirit of sin and say we are saints of God knowing we are serving sin and satan?

1 Cor. 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Where does God's word state that we can sin our way to eternal life with God? In over thirty some years of research I have never found one statement that states that one in sin will enter eternal life with God. What I have found is quite the opposite. The sinning saint theology is another doctrine of ignorance from the pit of darkness.

As long as we remain as God's children we are washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God! The old man of sin is gone.

No one is saying one can sin their way to eternal life with God, no one. The O poster stated states; "I'm tired of fake Christians who call themselves sinners. Is there such a person as a fake Christian? One is either a true Christian, a follower of Christ on not.

What I'm saying is, one can be a Christian, one can stumble, REPENT, and remain saved! Anyone who says they NEVER EVER SIN since their original repentance, conversion and being born again are very special in their own eyes.

Even our perfect Jesus said He himself wasn't good, or at least as good as the Father. "None is good, only the Father!

Luke 18:18, "And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19, And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

God will forgive those Christians who stumble as often as they fall and then repent!

Luke 17:3, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

4, And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."

Matt. 18:21. "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22. Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

I'm not talking about those who are constantly and deliberately engaged in envyings, murders, drunkenness and revellings? I'm talking about every day Christians who occasionally stumble and SIN! knowing just one sin is enough to bar one from Heaven, but God has provided us with a lifeline, Jesus Christ, and upon repentance, one is again forgiven!

I believe if one says and believes they no longer need the Salvation of Jesus Christ because they are perfect, sinless and will never sin again, after being saved once, are kidding themselves and are indeed lost!

[luchnia]

I am oft surprised at how the gospel of our Lord is belittled to the point of the sinning-saint theology. The scriptures has much to say about holiness, perfection, and freedom from sin in what Jesus did. We can make light of it, but any that follow satan are satan's and not God's. We can try to justify sin, yet we lose in the end as our master is not God. God's message demands holy living and sin free life period and without exception.

Sure one can fall back into sin, but they must repent and forsake sin as commanded by God's word. Any in sin are not God's. What sin can one do that does not damn his soul and make him a servant to such sin? 1 Jn 1:7,9 lets us know if we do fall we can be cleansed again. It also shows us that we do not sin if we walk in the light. It is not rocket science - the math is very straight forward. It is like Jesus said to the woman, "Go and sin no more...".

[branham1965]

im suprised at you ignoring my post.are you perfect.do you ever sin???was Dad Hagin wrong???????

we will never be perfect in the body.


im not excusing sin.but we would not be warned a ????????times if there was no threat to sin.

Jesus gave someone in Revelation the SPACE TO REPENT OF HER FORNICATION.

Paul delivered the Corinthian to Satan FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH THAT THE SPIRIT MIGHT BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.

DAD HAGIN PRAYED FOR A MANS HEALING.HE WAS UNABLE TO SAY THE WORD.JESUS SPOKE TO HIM AND SAID IVE WAITED ON HIM FOR 36 YEARS TO JUDGE HIMSELF AND PUT AWAY SIN.HE HAS NOT LIVED RIGHT FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS AT A TIME.SO I DELIVERED HIM TO SATAN 1 COR 5....HE WENT TO HEAVEN A FEW DAYS LATER.

I am oft surprised at how the gospel of our Lord is belittled to the point of the sinning-saint theology. The scriptures has much to say about holiness, perfection, and freedom from sin in what Jesus did. We can make light of it, but any that follow satan are satan's and not God's. We can try to justify sin, yet we lose in the end as our master is not God. God's message demands holy living and sin free life period and without exception.

Sure one can fall back into sin, but they must repent and forsake sin as commanded by God's word. Any in sin are not God's. What sin can one do that does not damn his soul and make him a servant to such sin? 1 Jn 1:7,9 lets us know if we do fall we can be cleansed again. It also shows us that we do not sin if we walk in the light. It is not rocket science - the math is very straight forward. It is like Jesus said to the woman, "Go and sin no more...".

[Ironman]

"Sure one can fall back into sin, but they must repent and forsake sin as commanded by God's word."

Isn't that what we are saying? We are at this time imperfect, waiting to be made perfect, we are being tempted daily by the greatest evil mind ever and his countless hoard of demons and evil followers ever created, Satan, who rebelled and tried to dethrone God Himself.

We know we are members of the family of God because only family members are entitled to an inheritance which is reserved, held in store for us in Heaven. IF and When we stumble we repent. Some in the family of God are not perfect, YET.

1 Peter 1:1, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
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5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
*******************************************************************************************************************************

6, Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
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7, That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"

[luchnia]

I know this is a sensitive subject. Here are some thoughts to ponder (BTW I do not equate perfection with sinlessness - they are two entirely different things):
Remember what the evil one said, "Thou shalt not surely die"

There may be more beliefs about sin, but I think most fit into these three groups below.

Group 1 - those that do sin and claim to be christian, yet simply will not get rid of sin (these folks attempt to justify sin because they love sin and won't give it up. They fall under the camp that believes God will save them no matter what they do - type of forced salvation)
*These are those that believe you can sin and be saved at the same time and will continue to sin being confident that they are heaven bound.

Group 2 - those that think they sin, but don't understand what sin is. This belief usually stems from being taught from a young age that you cannot be free from sin no matter what you do - usually from Romans 7. So the best way to make this fit God's word is to be ignorant of what sin really is. They also fall under a partial grace-ite camp as some do struggle when reasoning that Paul gave that no sin will enter eternal life)
*These are those that think they are depraved worms, even after salvation, and stubbing your toe or bumping your head is sin because they are simply ignorant of what sin is.

Group 3 - those that do not sin and live holy unto God (these follow the Word of God in life and in conduct. They understand what sin is and know the methods of the evil one. They know that whoever is born of God cannot sin and expect to inherit eternal life. They loathe sin with a fervency and choose the life of God over sin)
*These are those that live holy unto the Lord and understand the righteousness of faith thereby following that path.

[branham1965]

Haz i wish i knew the Book like you do.

"Sure one can fall back into sin, but they must repent and forsake sin as commanded by God's word."

Isn't that what we are saying? We are at this time imperfect, waiting to be made perfect, we are being tempted daily by the greatest evil mind ever and his countless hoard of demons and evil followers ever created, Satan, who rebelled and tried to dethrone God Himself.

We know we are members of the family of God because only family members are entitled to an inheritance which is reserved, held in store for us in Heaven. IF and When we stumble we repent. Some in the family of God are not perfect, YET.

1 Peter 1:1, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
********************************************************************************************************************************

5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
*******************************************************************************************************************************

6, Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
...................................................................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


7, That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"

[Ironman]

luchnia wrote:

I know this is a sensitive subject. Here are some thoughts to ponder (BTW I do not equate perfection with sinlessness - they are two entirely different things):
Remember what the evil one said, "Thou shalt not surely die"

There may be more beliefs about sin, but I think most fit into these three groups below.

"Group 1 - those that do sin and claim to be christian, yet simply will not get rid of sin (these folks attempt to justify sin because they love sin and won't give it up. They fall under the camp that believes God will save them no matter what they do - type of forced salvation)
*These are those that believe you can sin and be saved at the same time and will continue to sin being confident that they are heaven bound."

.

Not me, God will NOT save me no matter what I do?

"Group 2 - those that think they sin, but don't understand what sin is. This belief usually stems from being taught from a young age that you cannot be free from sin no matter what you do - usually from Romans 7. So the best way to make this fit God's word is to be ignorant of what sin really is. They also fall under a partial grace-ite camp as some do struggle when reasoning that Paul gave that no sin will enter eternal life)
*These are those that think they are depraved worms, even after salvation, and stubbing your toe or bumping your head is sin because they are simply ignorant of what sin is."

.

Not me again. I know and understand what sin is, and I know stubbing my toe or bumping my head is NOT sin, but when doing so and without thinking out of years of habitual doing this before conversion, (old habits die hard for some of us imperfect beings), a million times in underground coal mines, saying, "SH*T" or worse after stubbing my toe or bumping my head is sin and is immediately repented of!

"Group 3 - those that do not sin and live holy unto God (these follow the Word of God in life and in conduct. They understand what sin is and know the loathe sin with a fervency and choose the life of God They know that whoever is born of God cannot sin and expect to inherit eternal life. They loathe sin with a fervency and choose the life of God over sin)
*These are those that live holy unto the Lord and understand the righteousness of faith thereby following that path."

.

Again, not me? I know I am not perfect yet! I am not yet FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, I at this time only have a measure.
I also know as I GROW in the grace and knowledge of God my Father, I can say I loathe sin with a fervency and choose the life of God. If and when I stumble I immediately repent as Jesus tells us to do and I try not to sin again.
I know I am in Jesus because God has saved my life many times while others have been killed right by my side. My wife, my father in law, my children were all healed of deadly sickness when I asked God to heal them in Jesus Name! If I was not in Jesus my prayers would not be answered.

Now These born again Christians you speak of, who never ever sin, who cannot sin, who fully understand the ways of the devil, must now be filled, to overflowing with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus could do nothing, not one miracle until He was filled with the Holy Spirit. It was then that He healed the sick, raised the dead and did many great works.

Where are these now perfect born again Christians who NEVER EVER accidently sin, who are filled with the Holy Spirit you speak of. Who is being raised from the dead by these, who is clearing out the hospital's today?

John 14:12, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I believe in Jesus and the Father who sent Him. I believe the Father raised Jesus. Humbly I can say I do a few good things, but the works Jesus speaks of? Try as I may, pray as I may, I have yet to raise anyone from death, I have yet to heal a child dying from brain cancer? Father answered my prayers and healed my child, but me healing her or others, NOT YET! Have you raised anyone, healed a dying person?

Could it be because we are not yet 'PERFECT' Christians.

Does that make us FAKE one's ?

[branham1965]

AGAIN great post mate.
know that you are from the heart.And you are genuine.I admire you for it.And other things.

These folks who are perfect bother me.ive never had anything but trouble since i was saved years ago.The world,flesh and the devil are very hard to beat. please pray for me.

luchnia wrote:

I know this is a sensitive subject. Here are some thoughts to ponder (BTW I do not equate perfection with sinlessness - they are two entirely different things):
Remember what the evil one said, "Thou shalt not surely die"

There may be more beliefs about sin, but I think most fit into these three groups below.

"Group 1 - those that do sin and claim to be christian, yet simply will not get rid of sin (these folks attempt to justify sin because they love sin and won't give it up. They fall under the camp that believes God will save them no matter what they do - type of forced salvation)
*These are those that believe you can sin and be saved at the same time and will continue to sin being confident that they are heaven bound."

.

Not me, God will NOT save me no matter what I do?

"Group 2 - those that think they sin, but don't understand what sin is. This belief usually stems from being taught from a young age that you cannot be free from sin no matter what you do - usually from Romans 7. So the best way to make this fit God's word is to be ignorant of what sin really is. They also fall under a partial grace-ite camp as some do struggle when reasoning that Paul gave that no sin will enter eternal life)
*These are those that think they are depraved worms, even after salvation, and stubbing your toe or bumping your head is sin because they are simply ignorant of what sin is."

.

Not me again. I know and understand what sin is, and I know stubbing my toe or bumping my head is NOT sin, but when doing so and without thinking out of years of habitual doing this before conversion, (old habits die hard for some of us imperfect beings), a million times in underground coal mines, saying, "SH*T" or worse after stubbing my toe or bumping my head is sin and is immediately repented of!

"Group 3 - those that do not sin and live holy unto God (these follow the Word of God in life and in conduct. They understand what sin is and know the loathe sin with a fervency and choose the life of God They know that whoever is born of God cannot sin and expect to inherit eternal life. They loathe sin with a fervency and choose the life of God over sin)
*These are those that live holy unto the Lord and understand the righteousness of faith thereby following that path."

.

Again, not me? I know I am not perfect yet! I am not yet FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, I at this time only have a measure.
I also know as I GROW in the grace and knowledge of God my Father, I can say I loathe sin with a fervency and choose the life of God. If and when I stumble I immediately repent as Jesus tells us to do and I try not to sin again.
I know I am in Jesus because God has saved my life many times while others have been killed right by my side. My wife, my father in law, my children were all healed of deadly sickness when I asked God to heal them in Jesus Name! If I was not in Jesus my prayers would not be answered.

Now These born again Christians you speak of, who never ever sin, who cannot sin, who fully understand the ways of the devil, must now be filled, to overflowing with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus could do nothing, not one miracle until He was filled with the Holy Spirit. It was then that He healed the sick, raised the dead and did many great works.

Where are these now perfect born again Christians who NEVER EVER accidently sin, who are filled with the Holy Spirit you speak of. Who is being raised from the dead by these, who is clearing out the hospital's today?

John 14:12, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I believe in Jesus and the Father who sent Him. I believe the Father raised Jesus. Humbly I can say I do a few good things, but the works Jesus speaks of? Try as I may, pray as I may, I have yet to raise anyone from death, I have yet to heal a child dying from brain cancer? Father answered my prayers and healed my child, but me healing her or others, NOT YET! Have you raised anyone, healed a dying person?

Could it be because we are not yet 'PERFECT' Christians.

Does that make us FAKE one's ?

[Ironman]

Billy wrote;

"These folks who are perfect bother me. Iv'e never had anything but trouble since I was saved years ago. The world, flesh and the devil are very hard to beat. please pray for me."

.

Praying for you Mate!

Some say they are sinless and perfect and never ever sin! and they believe they are, and if they are perfect and sinless, and have been baptised and born again, why are they not healing the sick and raising the poor unfortunate children who have died or been accidently killed?

John 14:12, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

Jesus could do nothing until He was filled with the Holy Spirit, even though He was perfect and totally sinless until Baptism and even untill His death! Jesus raised no one from death, healed no one from sickness until He was filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit.

We on here believe on Jesus and the works He did, we are baptised, have repented, were born again, we received a measure of the holy spirit, we battle temptation every day, sometimes stumbling, some times not, we continue to ask the Father In Jesus Name to heal us, forgive us, I pray that daily whether I sin or not!

Not judging anyone, I'm curious, where are the works and even greater works being carried out by the sinless perfect born again ones? Are they working in secret?

The apostles were able to do great works, Mark 6:13, And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them. Why cant we?

[branham1965]

thank you Haz.