Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ A Puzzling Passage

[titus213]

I could use an assist . . . in a few weeks I will be starting our congregation through the Book of Exodus. In my preparation, I have come to the episode where the Lord has sent Moses back to Egypt (Exodus 4) but on the way the Lord met him and sought to kill him (v.24). The part I could use help with is not why the Lord would want to kill him (I think Dake explains that well enough) but my question is: WHOM is the Lord seeking to kill? Dake's comment is that God was seeking to kill one of Moses' sons; I have only seen that opinion expressed one other place . . . by far the majority of commentators assume God is seeking to kill Moses himself.

Does anyone have any insight(s) as to why Dake assumes it's one of the boys and not Moses that God is seeking to kill?

Or does this have to go in my "waiting for further information" bucket?

[Ironman]

I could use an assist . . . in a few weeks I will be starting our congregation through the Book of Exodus. In my preparation, I have come to the episode where the Lord has sent Moses back to Egypt (Exodus 4) but on the way the Lord met him and sought to kill him (v.24). The part I could use help with is not why the Lord would want to kill him (I think Dake explains that well enough) but my question is: WHOM is the Lord seeking to kill? Dake's comment is that God was seeking to kill one of Moses' sons; I have only seen that opinion expressed one other place . . . by far the majority of commentators assume God is seeking to kill Moses himself.

Does anyone have any insight(s) as to why Dake assumes it's one of the boys and not Moses that God is seeking to kill?

Or does this have to go in my "waiting for further information" bucket?

I go with Dake on this in every way. God promised Abraham that the male who was not circumcised would be cut off;

(Gen. 17:14, And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

God was acting now to deliver Israel, so it was necessary to enforce the letter of the covenant.

Moses had two sons, his first born was named Gershom, the second Eliezer. There was no mention in Scripture I can find where either of them were circumcised until now.

Zipporah, knowing they were not circumsiced, because she wanted to avoid circumcising them, and understanding why God sought to kill the boy, (Gershon, being the first born), took a knife and circumcised the firstborn, (Gershom) and saved his life.

She cast the foreskin at the feet of Moses, and God let the boy live. She also called Moses a husband of blood,ie, with the rites of blood, referring to the circumcision, which she tried to avoid (V 25-26).

[bibleman]

I could use an assist . . . in a few weeks I will be starting our congregation through the Book of Exodus. In my preparation, I have come to the episode where the Lord has sent Moses back to Egypt (Exodus 4) but on the way the Lord met him and sought to kill him (v.24). The part I could use help with is not why the Lord would want to kill him (I think Dake explains that well enough) but my question is: WHOM is the Lord seeking to kill? Dake's comment is that God was seeking to kill one of Moses' sons; I have only seen that opinion expressed one other place . . . by far the majority of commentators assume God is seeking to kill Moses himself.

Does anyone have any insight(s) as to why Dake assumes it's one of the boys and not Moses that God is seeking to kill?

Or does this have to go in my "waiting for further information" bucket?

I think Dake got that idea from Bullinger.

by the way in the inn. A further lesson, not learnt in Egypt or at Horeb. A secret in Moses' life, known only to himself. Moses had neglected to circumcise Eliezer. To save the child's life, Zipporah now performs the rite herself.

him = the son (v. 23). Cp. Gen 17:14.

Companion Bible Exodus 4:24 notes

[Ironman]

I could use an assist . . . in a few weeks I will be starting our congregation through the Book of Exodus. In my preparation, I have come to the episode where the Lord has sent Moses back to Egypt (Exodus 4) but on the way the Lord met him and sought to kill him (v.24). The part I could use help with is not why the Lord would want to kill him (I think Dake explains that well enough) but my question is: WHOM is the Lord seeking to kill? Dake's comment is that God was seeking to kill one of Moses' sons; I have only seen that opinion expressed one other place . . . by far the majority of commentators assume God is seeking to kill Moses himself.

Does anyone have any insight(s) as to why Dake assumes it's one of the boys and not Moses that God is seeking to kill?

Or does this have to go in my "waiting for further information" bucket?

I think Dake got that idea from Bullinger.

by the way in the inn. A further lesson, not learnt in Egypt or at Horeb. A secret in Moses' life, known only to himself. Moses had neglected to circumcise Eliezer. To save the child's life, Zipporah now performs the rite herself.

him = the son (v. 23). Cp. Gen 17:14.

Companion Bible Exodus 4:24 notes

Wouldn't God be coming down to kill Gershom, the first born of Moses, as He said he would take Egypts and any of israels if they did not sprinkle to blood on their door lintels?

[titus213]

Thank you both for your input! Where the text itself gives so few details, all we can do is speculate I guess. I tend to lean in the direction Dake (and Bullinger, I now know) takes . . . but I notice that Dake is careful not to guess which one of Moses' sons was involved. I think that's probably wise.

Thanks again.

[Ironman]

Somewhere in Dakes notes I read;

"Zipporah, knowing they were not circumsiced, because she wanted to avoid circumcising them, and understanding why God sought to kill the boy,"

Dake here says "They" and "Them" so I'm assuming they both were not circumcised.

Because of this, I'm again only assuming God was going to kill the first born Gershom, because of His plan to deliver Israel, so it was necessary to enforce the letter of the covenant.

[victoryword]

On the subject of God killing Moses in Ex. 4:24-26, Walter C. Kaiser says:

• The syntax of Old Testament Hebrew tends to be concerned with secondary causes; thus, what God permitted is often said in the Old Testament to be done directly by him. So if, as I believe, God permitted Moses to be afflicted with a severe sickness or some danger, the proper way to express that in Hebrew language patterns would be to say that God wanted to kill him.

This is from the book "Hard Sayings of the Bible."

[titus213]

On the subject of God killing Moses in Ex. 4:24-26, Walter C. Kaiser says:

• The syntax of Old Testament Hebrew tends to be concerned with secondary causes; thus, what God permitted is often said in the Old Testament to be done directly by him. So if, as I believe, God permitted Moses to be afflicted with a severe sickness or some danger, the proper way to express that in Hebrew language patterns would be to say that God wanted to kill him.

This is from the book "Hard Sayings of the Bible."

Thanks for sharing that . . . Walt Kaiser is a friend of mine (had him first as a prof when he was a young instructor at the seminary I attended) and he's a great guy. Some of you may have seen him in the young earth / old earth debates with Ken Ham on the John Ankerberg television shows. If you ever get a chance to see the debates on YouTube or wherever, I think you would enjoy him.

It's also interesting that his comment you quoted is something we find stated frequently in the Dake Bible . . . for example when he is talking about God hardening Pharaoh's heart in Exodus 4:21 - "God is often said to do the things He permits. God gave Pharaoh the chance to resist Him and harden his own heart".

[victoryword]

Titus, I have several books by your friend Kaiser and they have been immensely helpful. He, along with others, have echoed Dake's position on this. I actually first read it in Kenneth Hagin's book, "Redeemed from Poverty, Sickness, and Spiritual Death" (he was quoted Robert Young). It lit up a light in me and helped me to understand why God in the OT appeared to be different than what Jesus portrays Him.

Here is a placard centered around this same idea that I put on my facebook page last Sunday:

[image]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5djOdxk6oOE/U ... word33.jpg[/image]

[macca]

Ahhh the fresh air on this board is sooo sweet