Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Is God in the "Eternal Now"?

[cpbeller]

Read Dakes notes on Romans 4:17. Dake pretty clearly taught that God had faith, and used faith, especially when He created the universe, calling those things that be not as though they were (in connection with Hebrews 11:3).

In fact, God has been putting forth His Word into the world since the beginning, even at the fall, when He declared that the Seed of the Woman would crush the serpent's head. And throughout the Old Testament, God had continued to put forth that Word, and then the time of fulfillment came, and Jesus was born, making that Word become flesh. I know Ed does not see it this way, but it is what it is. God excercised His faith with every Word He spoke, calling those things which be not as though they were.

[Justaned]

Read Dakes notes on Romans 4:17. Dake pretty clearly taught that God had faith, and used faith, especially when He created the universe, calling those things that be not as though they were (in connection with Hebrews 11:3).

In fact, God has been putting forth His Word into the world since the beginning, even at the fall, when He declared that the Seed of the Woman would crush the serpent's head. And throughout the Old Testament, God had continued to put forth that Word, and then the time of fulfillment came, and Jesus was born, making that Word become flesh. I know Ed does not see it this way, but it is what it is. God excercised His faith with every Word He spoke, calling those things which be not as though they were.

If God speaks something into existence does it become a reality or not? If it does then faith is not involved. Faith is things hoped for not spoken into existence.

[Rocky]

Read Dakes notes on Romans 4:17. Dake pretty clearly taught that God had faith, and used faith, especially when He created the universe, calling those things that be not as though they were (in connection with Hebrews 11:3).

In fact, God has been putting forth His Word into the world since the beginning, even at the fall, when He declared that the Seed of the Woman would crush the serpent's head. And throughout the Old Testament, God had continued to put forth that Word, and then the time of fulfillment came, and Jesus was born, making that Word become flesh. I know Ed does not see it this way, but it is what it is. God excercised His faith with every Word He spoke, calling those things which be not as though they were.

If God speaks something into existence does it become a reality or not? If it does then faith is not involved. Faith is things hoped for not spoken into existence.

Not completely accurate remember Jesus spoke of speaking and using your faith..

[cpbeller]

Actually, Ed...you are misquoting the Bible..."Faith" is not the things hoped for. It is the SUBSTANCE or the ASSURANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not clearly seen. But, I am sure, according to you, God did not mean for that Scripture to be taken for what it says, either...

NKJV = Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

ASV = Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

AMP = Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [a]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

DARBY = Now faith is [the] substantiating of things hoped for, [the] conviction of things not seen.

DRA = Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.

KJV = Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

LIVING BIBLE = What is faith? It is the confident assurance that something we want is going to happen. It is the certainty that what we hope for is waiting for us, even though we cannot see it up ahead.

NASB = Now faith is the [a]assurance of things hoped for, the [c]conviction of things not seen.

NIV = Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

REVISED STANDARD VERSION CATHOLIC EDITION = Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

God, who has perfect faith, without any form of doubt whatsoever, speaks with the absolute and full assurance that what He speaks will come to pass. Just as Jesus did while walking on this earth. Just as we are called to do. Dake understands Mark 11:22 to be read as "Have the faith OF God"...in other words: Have the God-kind of faith. What is that type, or form of faith? Read Romans 4:17, then look at Hebrews 11:1. Honestly Ed, I would say it is not all that difficult...but you even have trouble understanding a simple statement elsewhere in the Bible. So I am sure this will be quite the mountain for you to climb...

[cpbeller]

Ed: "If God speaks something into existence does it become a reality or not? If it does then faith is not involved. Faith is things hoped for not spoken into existence."

Huh?

When God speaks, He speaks in perfect faith, which brings about exactly what He spoke, which then makes it a reality. He calls those things which be not as though they were. That is how God uses His faith. Not too hard to understand. Unless you are saying that He doesn't believe what He is saying...

Did you read Dake's notes on Romans 4:17? Dake explains it, and explains it very well.

[Justaned]

Ed: "If God speaks something into existence does it become a reality or not? If it does then faith is not involved. Faith is things hoped for not spoken into existence."

Huh?

When God speaks, He speaks in perfect faith, which brings about exactly what He spoke, which then makes it a reality. He calls those things which be not as though they were. That is how God uses His faith. Not too hard to understand. Unless you are saying that He doesn't believe what He is saying...

Did you read Dake's notes on Romans 4:17? Dake explains it, and explains it very well.

So your claim is it is faith and not God's power that brings things into existence.
If I see a loaf of bread sitting on the table and reach out and pick it up do you see that as a display of my faith or my ability to pick up a loaf of bread?

[Justaned]

Actually, Ed...you are misquoting the Bible..."Faith" is not the things hoped for. It is the SUBSTANCE or the ASSURANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not clearly seen. But, I am sure, according to you, God did not mean for that Scripture to be taken for what it says, either...

NKJV = Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

ASV = Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

AMP = Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [a]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

DARBY = Now faith is [the] substantiating of things hoped for, [the] conviction of things not seen.

DRA = Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.

KJV = Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

LIVING BIBLE = What is faith? It is the confident assurance that something we want is going to happen. It is the certainty that what we hope for is waiting for us, even though we cannot see it up ahead.

NASB = Now faith is the [a]assurance of things hoped for, the [c]conviction of things not seen.

NIV = Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

REVISED STANDARD VERSION CATHOLIC EDITION = Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

God, who has perfect faith, without any form of doubt whatsoever, speaks with the absolute and full assurance that what He speaks will come to pass. Just as Jesus did while walking on this earth. Just as we are called to do. Dake understands Mark 11:22 to be read as "Have the faith OF God"...in other words: Have the God-kind of faith. What is that type, or form of faith? Read Romans 4:17, then look at Hebrews 11:1. Honestly Ed, I would say it is not all that difficult...but you even have trouble understanding a simple statement elsewhere in the Bible. So I am sure this will be quite the mountain for you to climb...

Chris reread what those verses say and what you say. Do you really want to go there???????
You do know what substance means don't you????

[cpbeller]

Ed, I know what "substance" means. I know what "assurance" means. The question is...do you? You have already proven time and time and time again that you will twist and make the Scripture say something completely opposite from what it simply states to fit what you think it should be.

The funny thing is...here is yet another instance of you disagreeing with Dake. Dake has stated that God has faith, and uses faith. I have given Scripture, I have given Dake's notes. You only want to tell me that I don't know what "substance" means, and warn me to "not go there". Whatever, Ed...again, I am arguing with brick wall...

[Justaned]

Ed, I know what "substance" means. I know what "assurance" means. The question is...do you? You have already proven time and time and time again that you will twist and make the Scripture say something completely opposite from what it simply states to fit what you think it should be.

The funny thing is...here is yet another instance of you disagreeing with Dake. Dake has stated that God has faith, and uses faith. I have given Scripture, I have given Dake's notes. You only want to tell me that I don't know what "substance" means, and warn me to "not go there". Whatever, Ed...again, I am arguing with brick wall...

Since faith is a gift of God where does God get his faith? What does God have faith in?

[cpbeller]

And Ed...did you read Dakes notes on Romans 4:17? You continue to claim I am wrong, but you have not addressed Dake's notes on Romans 4:17...here, let me make it easy for you, I will quote them here...

this is note "l", taken from Romans 4:17...

Two things of God here:

1. Resurrection (v.17; 8:11; Jn 5:21; 6:63; 1 Cor. 15:22, 35, 45; 2 Cor. 3:6; Gal. 3:21; 1 Tim. 6:13; 1 Pet. 3:18)

2. Faith (v. 17; 8:24-25; Mt. 17:20; 21:22; Mk. 9:23; 11:22-24; Heb. 11:1) True faith is counting things that be not as though they were. This is what God exercised when He called the words into existence (Heb. 11:3; 2 Pet. 3:5; Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7)

(I bolded the portion that pertains to God having and using faith, so Ed would not miss it)

The Bible is very clear, Ed...unless once again, God did not mean what He said....