Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Romans 7:14-25

[titus213]

One other thing to consider, Rocky, is that the context of chapter 7 is the Law. Verses 1-6 explain that we are free from the Law so that we can be slaves in the new life under the Spirit. Verses 7 - 12 explain what the function of the Law is. Verses 13-24 describe what it is like trying to live under the Law. So you can see that the whole chapter has to do with a Jew or God-fearing gentiles struggling to live under the Law, and not anything to do with the Christian life. The opening section of chapter 7 explains that the Christian has died to the Law so that we could be united to someone else.
Any Greek grammar you can find online or in print will explain that in Koine Greek verb tense has primarily to do with duration, not time.

[Justaned]

His flesh tainted by sin. But if Paul crucifies the flesh and follows after the spirit the flesh even though it is still present is not controlling Paul. Should Paul let his guard down the flesh will rear its ugly head and once again Paul must crucify it and let his spirit be in control. You are a big believer in backslidding how do you think that happens unless the flesh gets into control?

Well Ed,

According to you he must have let his guard down!

Romans 7:14 ...I am carnal, sold under sin.

If that be true doesn't it suggest being in a fight. Where else is having one's guard up so important?
Don't you have to keep your guard up? Or is your flesh so perfected it never brings you thoughts of anger, vengeance, over indulgence, sluggishness? You never have to push your tongue against your cheek, or wish you hadn't said that? In your day to day life you never have to seek God's forgiveness?

Paul was detailing, explaining the battle between flesh and spirit. Before being reborn Paul's spirit had a spiritual disease almost to the point of death. So when Paul before he was saved did not feel condemnation, did not feel hopelessness, did not feel a need for repent. But once the Holy Spirit quicken Paul's spirit drawing him into salvation sudden Paul saw what he was free of and had to fight against to prevent it from taking hold of his life again. That is when Paul realized the hopeless state he had been in and unless he would return he had to resist, fight against, and yes even repent of when his guard was let down.

Seeing how you believe that Paul was such a sinful looser.... Do you think we should even read his New Testament writings?

Where do you get Paul was a loser. He was victorious in Christ but he had to struggle to reach the goal. Why else did he use the analogy that we are in a race pressing toward the goal?

How was he victorious if he was a Christian at the time he said this:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am!...

The first step of true conversion is the conviction of sin. Without a accepted realization of sin no one can be truly saved. If any of us intentionally sins is not the Holy Spirit quick to convict us. That process never happened before salvation. Before salvation sin never convicted us of anything. The conviction Paul speaks about shows he is not living under the law but is free of it but instead is living in the love and obedience of Christ Jesus. That is victorious in my book.

[bibleman]

His flesh tainted by sin. But if Paul crucifies the flesh and follows after the spirit the flesh even though it is still present is not controlling Paul. Should Paul let his guard down the flesh will rear its ugly head and once again Paul must crucify it and let his spirit be in control. You are a big believer in backslidding how do you think that happens unless the flesh gets into control?

Well Ed,

According to you he must have let his guard down!

Romans 7:14 ...I am carnal, sold under sin.

If that be true doesn't it suggest being in a fight. Where else is having one's guard up so important?
Don't you have to keep your guard up? Or is your flesh so perfected it never brings you thoughts of anger, vengeance, over indulgence, sluggishness? You never have to push your tongue against your cheek, or wish you hadn't said that? In your day to day life you never have to seek God's forgiveness?

Paul was detailing, explaining the battle between flesh and spirit. Before being reborn Paul's spirit had a spiritual disease almost to the point of death. So when Paul before he was saved did not feel condemnation, did not feel hopelessness, did not feel a need for repent. But once the Holy Spirit quicken Paul's spirit drawing him into salvation sudden Paul saw what he was free of and had to fight against to prevent it from taking hold of his life again. That is when Paul realized the hopeless state he had been in and unless he would return he had to resist, fight against, and yes even repent of when his guard was let down.

Seeing how you believe that Paul was such a sinful looser.... Do you think we should even read his New Testament writings?

Where do you get Paul was a loser. He was victorious in Christ but he had to struggle to reach the goal. Why else did he use the analogy that we are in a race pressing toward the goal?

How was he victorious if he was a Christian at the time he said this:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am!...

The first step of true conversion is the conviction of sin. Without a accepted realization of sin no one can be truly saved. If any of us intentionally sins is not the Holy Spirit quick to convict us. That process never happened before salvation. Before salvation sin never convicted us of anything. The conviction Paul speaks about shows he is not living under the law but is free of it but instead is living in the love and obedience of Christ Jesus. That is victorious in my book.

How can he be living in the love and obedience of Christ Jesus and be a wretched man at the same time?

[Justaned]

How can he be living in the love and obedience of Christ Jesus and be a wretched man at the same time?

From some of your comments on this forum I think you are the perfect living example of such a man.

[Rocky]

Ed Wrote: Without a accepted realization of sin no one can be truly saved

Wow the board has become dead again lol. Ok don't mean to be a stickler here. And, I believe you and I are in a certain agreement about these verses . But, could you explain this statement? Because the bible never states this about salvation and this is not a biblical accurate statement for a requirement for obtaining salvation. before I was born again I still had a realization about wrongs that I have done, having remorse or being sorry for doing something wrong does not save. No one can accept the realization of sin unless they are born again first.

[Justaned]

Ed Wrote: Without a accepted realization of sin no one can be truly saved

Wow the board has become dead again lol. Ok don't mean to be a stickler here. And, I believe you and I are in a certain agreement about these verses . But, could you explain this statement? Because the bible never states this about salvation and this is not a biblical accurate statement for a requirement for obtaining salvation. before I was born again I still had a realization about wrongs that I have done, having remorse or being sorry for doing something wrong does not save. No one can accept the realization of sin unless they are born again first.

If you don't have a full realization of sin what are you seeking salvation from? Too many are seeking salvation from eternal damnation instead of salvation from sin that alienates them from God. There is a huge difference.

I know a man was once as a bad man. There is nothing you can think of short of molesting a child that he did not do. And his conscious was clean. He slept like the proverbial baby so to speak. When you talked to him about being a sinner he didn't understand to him it was nothing. It wasn't until he realized his sin that he began to feel remorse and realized how far from a holy God he was. It was actually a long journey but he made it and found I believe true forgiveness and true salvation.

[Rocky]

Ed Wrote: Without a accepted realization of sin no one can be truly saved

Wow the board has become dead again lol. Ok don't mean to be a stickler here. And, I believe you and I are in a certain agreement about these verses . But, could you explain this statement? Because the bible never states this about salvation and this is not a biblical accurate statement for a requirement for obtaining salvation. before I was born again I still had a realization about wrongs that I have done, having remorse or being sorry for doing something wrong does not save. No one can accept the realization of sin unless they are born again first.

If you don't have a full realization of sin what are you seeking salvation from? Too many are seeking salvation from eternal damnation instead of salvation from sin that alienates them from God. There is a huge difference.

I know a man was once as a bad man. There is nothing you can think of short of molesting a child that he did not do. And his conscious was clean. He slept like the proverbial baby so to speak. When you talked to him about being a sinner he didn't understand to him it was nothing. It wasn't until he realized his sin that he began to feel remorse and realized how far from a holy God he was. It was actually a long journey but he made it and found I believe true forgiveness and true salvation.

Thank you for replying Ed. Ok I get what you are saying :). And you are definitely right here..