Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Lucifer's fall in Eden

[Ray]

I have come to believe Lucifer's fall was not before the 6 days of Creation mentioned in Gen.1 But was After the 6 days of Creation.

Some of what I write below is Speculation and I cannot be Dogmatic, But anyone who would disagree with my thoughts below could also ONLY Speculate.


In the Garden of Eden, after the fall of man, GOD placed Cherubims to keep man from taking of The Tree Of Life in his then fallen state.
Gen 3:
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Was there a Cherubim put at the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good and Evil before man's fall perhaps to keep mankind from taking of that Tree ?
Ezek 28:
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:

Lucifer was in Eden, an anointed cherub that covereth. ("covereth" in Hebrew=cakak, to hedge, to fence about, shut in). he (lucifer) was at the Tree in which GOD warned Adam not to eat from. As lucifer was placed in Eden, (I believe) there was a great amount of authority given him.
When JESUS was being tempted in the wilderness, satan spoke of a power that was given unto him.
When was this power given to satan ? by Who ? My answer is in Eden, By GOD.
Luke 4:
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

Why is it taught that this being ("serpent") in Eden at The Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good and Evil was a snake or some type of animal. The Scriptures teach that this "being" was "more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made" yet it is not given that this "being" was a beast of the field.

As this "being" at The Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good and Evil was by Moses called a "serpent" in His writings why must we believe this "serpent" is some type of reptile.

As JESUS, and John The Baptist spoke of "serpents" and "vipers" were THEY speaking to actual reptiles or were they speaking of the spiritual offspring of satan ?
Matthew 23:33
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 12:34
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Matthew 3:7
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Was The Apostle John speaking of an actual reptile or a spiritual being ?
Revelation 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Was GOD SPEAKING of a curse that was put upon a reptile or an "anointed cherub" ?
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

As GOD SAID "upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:", was GOD Speaking of the crawl of a snake or the lowness that this anointed cherub had fallen to ? Was GOD Speaking of the eating of actual dust or was HE Speaking of the dust of which man was created from that this "serpent" would seek to devour ?
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Was GOD Speaking of enmity between a snake and the woman, and between the snake's seed and her seed or enmity between this fallen cherub and the woman, and between this fallen cherub's spiritual seed and her seed ?
Matthew 23:33
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 12:34
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

[branham1965]

Well i do believe in a pre-adamite world as taught by the Reverend here.

So i believe Lucifer fell with 1/3 of the angelic hosts and the Earth was laid waste after he-they fell and rebelled against the LORD.

[victoryword]

Satan falling after the six day creation makes no logical sense. In his fall he was able to convince a number of angels to follow him. How can someone incite a rebellion against God within a 24 hour period. From the human perspective it takes months-years to convince people that they need to rebel, and that is usually against a corrupt government. Now you think about the centuries that all of these angels spent under the most kind, benevolent, unselfish loving governement that ever existed. How could you convince them to rebel against that government in one day?

Look at a backslidden Christian. Satan is not able to convince most Christians to turn away from God. It takes a series of lies and plenty of time to get the thought processes to act against God. My experience is that this does not happen in a 24 hour period. The events described in Ezekiel 28 would have to happen over a much longer period of time than one day. My conclusion is that this fall had to have taken place between Genesis 1: and Genesis 1:2. In verse 2 we find the phrase bohu wa tohu which is a phrase used in every other part of the Bible in reference to JUDGMENT!!! A catastrophic even took place between verses 1 and 2 and the most likely scenario is that Satan and his angels rebelled against God, began to do acts of violence (Ezekiel 28 blames Satan for violence and not God) and judgment took place.

Beth Snodderly of the Ralph Winter Missionary Foundation has written an excellent scholarly paper on this. You can find it on academia.edu.

[Justaned]

We must remember that Satan still has access to heaven, he is the accuser of the saints. Rev 12:10
Also that Satan reports with the angels when God summons them. The book of Job 1:6
Satan being thrown out of heaven happens much later in the book of Revelations. Rev 12:10

[Rocky]

Satan falling after the six day creation makes no logical sense. In his fall he was able to convince a number of angels to follow him. How can someone incite a rebellion against God within a 24 hour period. From the human perspective it takes months-years to convince people that they need to rebel, and that is usually against a corrupt government. Now you think about the centuries that all of these angels spent under the most kind, benevolent, unselfish loving governement that ever existed. How could you convince them to rebel against that government in one day?

Look at a backslidden Christian. Satan is not able to convince most Christians to turn away from God. It takes a series of lies and plenty of time to get the thought processes to act against God. My experience is that this does not happen in a 24 hour period. The events described in Ezekiel 28 would have to happen over a much longer period of time than one day. My conclusion is that this fall had to have taken place between Genesis 1: and Genesis 1:2. In verse 2 we find the phrase bohu wa tohu which is a phrase used in every other part of the Bible in reference to JUDGMENT!!! A catastrophic even took place between verses 1 and 2 and the most likely scenario is that Satan and his angels rebelled against God, began to do acts of violence (Ezekiel 28 blames Satan for violence and not God) and judgment took place.

Beth Snodderly of the Ralph Winter Missionary Foundation has written an excellent scholarly paper on this. You can find it on academia.edu.

Great great reply

[victoryword]

Great great reply

Thanks Rocky. Now where do I mail that check to again

[bibleman]

Great great reply

Thanks Rocky. Now where do I mail that check to again

Just mail it to me Troy!

As a blessing to Rocky, I am handling all of his financial affairs.

[victoryword]

Great great reply

Thanks Rocky. Now where do I mail that check to again

Just mail it to me Troy!

As a blessing to Rocky, I am handling all of his financial affairs.

Wow, Pastor Bible, you are so kind to Rocky to let the Lord keep him humble while you keep him poor

[Rocky]

Great great reply

Thanks Rocky. Now where do I mail that check to again

Just mail it to me Troy!

As a blessing to Rocky, I am handling all of his financial affairs.

Wow, Pastor Bible, you are so kind to Rocky to let the Lord keep him humble while you keep him poor

[Ray]

Satan falling after the six day creation makes no logical sense. In his fall he was able to convince a number of angels to follow him. How can someone incite a rebellion against God within a 24 hour period. From the human perspective it takes months-years to convince people that they need to rebel, and that is usually against a corrupt government. Now you think about the centuries that all of these angels spent under the most kind, benevolent, unselfish loving governement that ever existed. How could you convince them to rebel against that government in one day?

Look at a backslidden Christian. Satan is not able to convince most Christians to turn away from God. It takes a series of lies and plenty of time to get the thought processes to act against God. My experience is that this does not happen in a 24 hour period. The events described in Ezekiel 28 would have to happen over a much longer period of time than one day. My conclusion is that this fall had to have taken place between Genesis 1: and Genesis 1:2. In verse 2 we find the phrase bohu wa tohu which is a phrase used in every other part of the Bible in reference to JUDGMENT!!! A catastrophic even took place between verses 1 and 2 and the most likely scenario is that Satan and his angels rebelled against God, began to do acts of violence (Ezekiel 28 blames Satan for violence and not God) and judgment took place.

Snodderly of the Ralph Winter Missionary Foundation has written an excellent scholarly paper on this. You can find it on academia.edu.v

Victoryword,

Above you wrote:

"Satan falling after the six day creation makes no logical sense. In his fall he was able to convince a number of angels to follow him. How can someone incite a rebellion against God within a 24 hour period. From the human perspective it takes months-years to convince people that they need to rebel, and that is usually against a corrupt government. Now you think about the centuries that all of these angels spent under the most kind, benevolent, unselfish loving governement that ever existed. How could you convince them to rebel against that government in one day?

Look at a backslidden Christian. Satan is not able to convince most Christians to turn away from God. It takes a series of lies and plenty of time to get the thought processes to act against God. My experience is that this does not happen in a 24 hour period."

Lucifer as a Cherub in the Garden of Eden was appointed by THE MOST HIGH given Great Power and Authority as is given in Ezek 28 and Luke 4. Now this being a Fact how do you know that he would have had to convince a number of angels to follow him and not that 1/3 of the angels was appointed to him ?

How long do you believe it took Lucifer to persuade GOD'S Greatest Creation to disobey GOD and follow his lead into the Fall of mankind ?