Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHAT IS LORDSHIP SALVATION????

[Rocky]

Thank you for finally actually addressing some thing, oh and sorry for getting angry at you. You are a challenging to discuss things with, perhaps God is trying to teach me patience lol. Now we get to the meat of this with this question, and this is a great question by the way. Despite your claims Lordship is rooted in Calvinism. Another aspect of this theology is that a true Christian cant backslid because the Free will is surrendered. That God actually controls the actions of the believer in essence and prevents the believer from sinning or falling away because he made him Lord. Now I know you and I disagree about backsliding. In essence God is in Control and causes you to not sin you so cant fall always. This is why a lot of Armenians are against this theology. as I am..

You said it was a great question but you never answered it.
Here is the question

If you agree that Jesus must be Lord of your life how do you fold in free will? Either Jesus is in charge or you are. It is one or the other. Your only choice is to live like Christ desires you to live or not to. If you don't how can you believe being in conflict with the will of God in your life is living a saved life?

Forget about Calvinism/Aminianism MacArthur or what is his name my theology or yours. Just focus on the questions.

So now I am not living a saved life because I don't agree with this theology? I did answer, but here goes again, because I believe that the believer has free will. And it is up to the believer to remain in the faith not that God controls and prevents the believer from sinning or backsliding. If that were the case why did not God create robots in the garden in the first place?

Ed wrote: Forget about Calvinism/Aminianism MacArthur or what is his name my theology or yours. Just focus on the questions

And how can I forget about calvinism when your statements and questions are riddled with it? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck. Sorry but Ed from discussing this with you, You are a Calvinist when it come to your outlook on the free will which is why you have embraced the Lord ship salvation theology. I have never heard a Pentecostal Preacher say or teach the things you say. Why not embrace and admit the theology you are in to? Why are you playing dumb? I think the only thing that you may disagree with about calvinism is predestination, which is ironic because that is how the Calvinist draw the conclusion that a real Christian wont sin because Got knew before hand who he would save... Ed I am not as stupid as you are treating me. So give me scriptures that back up your theology for the 10th time.

[branham1965]

Excuse me guys while i go fall on my Sword.....

Thank you for finally actually addressing some thing, oh and sorry for getting angry at you. You are a challenging to discuss things with, perhaps God is trying to teach me patience lol. Now we get to the meat of this with this question, and this is a great question by the way. Despite your claims Lordship is rooted in Calvinism. Another aspect of this theology is that a true Christian cant backslid because the Free will is surrendered. That God actually controls the actions of the believer in essence and prevents the believer from sinning or falling away because he made him Lord. Now I know you and I disagree about backsliding. In essence God is in Control and causes you to not sin you so cant fall always. This is why a lot of Armenians are against this theology. as I am..

You said it was a great question but you never answered it.
Here is the question

If you agree that Jesus must be Lord of your life how do you fold in free will? Either Jesus is in charge or you are. It is one or the other. Your only choice is to live like Christ desires you to live or not to. If you don't how can you believe being in conflict with the will of God in your life is living a saved life?

Forget about Calvinism/Aminianism MacArthur or what is his name my theology or yours. Just focus on the questions.

I did answer, but here goes again I because I believe that the believer has free will. And it is up to the believer to remain in the faith not that God controls and prevent the believer from sinning or backsliding. If that were the case why did not God create robots in the first place?

Eds wisdom asked: Forget about Calvinism/Aminianism MacArthur or what is his name my theology or yours. Just focus on the questions

And how can I forget about calvinism when your statements and questions are riddled with it. Sorry but Ed from discussing this with you, You are a Calvinist when it come to your outlook on the free will which is why you have embraced this theology. I have never heard a Pentecostal Preacher say or teach the things you say. Why not embrace and admit the theology you are in to? Why are you playing dumb? You know * well you are an adherent to MacArthur and Calvinism. I think the only thing that you may disagree with about calvinism is predestination which is ironic because that is how Calvinist draw the conclusion that a real Christian wont sin. Ed I am not as stupid as you are treating me. So give me scriptures that back up your theology for the 10th time.

[Justaned]

Thank you for finally actually addressing some thing, oh and sorry for getting angry at you. You are a challenging to discuss things with, perhaps God is trying to teach me patience lol. Now we get to the meat of this with this question, and this is a great question by the way. Despite your claims Lordship is rooted in Calvinism. Another aspect of this theology is that a true Christian cant backslid because the Free will is surrendered. That God actually controls the actions of the believer in essence and prevents the believer from sinning or falling away because he made him Lord. Now I know you and I disagree about backsliding. In essence God is in Control and causes you to not sin you so cant fall always. This is why a lot of Armenians are against this theology. as I am..

You said it was a great question but you never answered it.
Here is the question

If you agree that Jesus must be Lord of your life how do you fold in free will? Either Jesus is in charge or you are. It is one or the other. Your only choice is to live like Christ desires you to live or not to. If you don't how can you believe being in conflict with the will of God in your life is living a saved life?

Forget about Calvinism/Aminianism MacArthur or what is his name my theology or yours. Just focus on the questions.

So now I am not living a saved life because I don't agree with this theology? I did answer, but here goes again, because I believe that the believer has free will. And it is up to the believer to remain in the faith not that God controls and prevents the believer from sinning or backsliding. If that were the case why did not God create robots in the garden in the first place?

Ed wrote: Forget about Calvinism/Aminianism MacArthur or what is his name my theology or yours. Just focus on the questions

And how can I forget about calvinism when your statements and questions are riddled with it if it? if walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a duck. Sorry but Ed from discussing this with you, You are a Calvinist when it come to your outlook on the free will which is why you have embraced the Lord ship salvation theology. I have never heard a Pentecostal Preacher say or teach the things you say. Why not embrace and admit the theology you are in to? Why are you playing dumb? I think the only thing that you may disagree with about calvinism is predestination, which is ironic because that is how Calvinist draw the conclusion that a real Christian wont sin because Got knew before hand who he would save.. This is why you seem to contradict your self a lot you cant have it both ways Ed. Ed I am not as stupid as you are treating me. So give me scriptures that back up your theology for the 10th time.

Where is Calvinism in this question?

If you agree that Jesus must be Lord of your life how do you fold in free will? Either Jesus is in charge or you are. It is one or the other. Your only choice is to live like Christ desires you to live or not to. If you don't how can you believe being in conflict with the will of God in your life is living a saved life?

You never did answer the question in it's entirety. I asked who is in charge of your life? You or Christ?
If you don't have Jesus in charge in your life isn't that conflict with scripture that denotes Him as Lord of our life? And if so how can you life with this conflict and consider yourself saved?

You said you believe a believer must remain in faith. What does that mean? Does it mean he submits his life to Jesus or not?

How can a believer not submit his life to Christ?

If a person is really submitted to Christ do you think he would choose to go back?

Where would the idea of rebellion against Christ come from?

Only one answer I can think of since the person is a new creation it wasn't internally manifested so it had to come from outside.
Only Satan would do that.

However the word says James 4:5-8 (NASB)
5 Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: "He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?
6 But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."
7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:5-8 (NASB)
5 Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: "He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?
6 But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."
7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:5-8 (NLT)
5 What do you think the Scriptures mean when they say that the spirit God has placed within us is filled with envy?
6 But he gives us even more grace to stand against such evil desires. As the Scriptures say, “God opposes the proud but favors the humble.”
7 So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Come close to God, and God will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; purify your hearts, for your loyalty is divided between God and the world.

What is that passage saying? Doesn't it say once we are saved in grace God gives us even more grace to resist Satan. If we draw near to God resisting Satan, Satan will flee.

Isn't that saying a true Christian does not rebel against God? Or am I putting word into your mouth?

[Rocky]

Ed Those scripture still does not say that God controls the believers or takes his free will away so he cannot sin. You ask who is in control? I am, I have the free choice to choose life or death to Follow after righteousness or unrighteousness. A true Christian through free will has the ability to Sin or backslid, Or remain in the faith and live his life for Christ if he so chooses. Look at Adam, did God prevent Adam from Sinning? Remember, Adam was created sinless. Does God want Robots?
Why did God not prevent Adam from sinning if he prevents Christians from sinning as you claim? I know the answer, but I know you will not like is because it does not agree with your theology and your calvinistic lordship salvation philosophies. Ed Even Angels have free will, look a Lucifer and the angels that followed him, Why did God not prevent Satan from sinning and turning against God? This theology that you adhere to confuses the bible in is very bad theology because its strips away God's plan of free moral agency. And, It clouds the understanding of God's plan for man as it pertains to redemption as a whole. Ed the bottom line is, I cannot agree with you or this theology because I believe in Free will. Do you?

[Justaned]

Ed Those scripture still does not say that God controls the believers or takes his free will away so he cannot sin. You ask who is in control? I am, I have the free choice to choose life or death to Follow after righteousness or unrighteousness. A true Christian through free will has the ability to Sin or backslid, Or remain in the faith and live his life for Christ if he so chooses. Look at Adam, did God prevent Adam from Sinning? Remember, Adam was created sinless. Does God want Robots?
Why did God not prevent Adam from sinning if he prevents Christians from sinning as you claim? I know the answer, but I know you will not like is because it does not agree with your theology and your calvinistic lordship salvation philosophies. Ed Even Angels have free will, look a Lucifer and the angels that followed him, Why did God not prevent Satan from sinning and turning against God? This theology that you adhere to confuses the bible in is very bad theology because its strips away God's plan of free moral agency. And, It clouds the understanding of God's plan for man as it pertains to redemption as a whole. Ed the bottom line is, I cannot agree with you or this theology because I believe in Free will. Do you?

Never said I didn't believe in free will. You keep saying I have reject free will. I never have. I said if Jesus is really Lord in your life YOU won't think of sin. If you never think of it you can't sin. You have to entertain sin for sin to happen. And if Jesus is really Lord of your life you won't entertain the sin.
You keep trying to make it legalistic or anti free will and I never said anything about either now have I? I said if you are a true Christian you must have Jesus as Lord of your life. If Jesus is in fact Lord in your Life you won't sin because you won't entertain temptation to allow it to turn into sin. Can someone that once had Jesus Lord in their life turn to sin.
Absolutely but to do so they have to stop allowing Jesus to be Lord in their life. In other words they reject the only salvation they had offered to them.

You want to forget James 1:13-15 (NKJV)

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Each man is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. If Jesus is Lord of your life your desires will not draw you away into temptation.

It is not hard to understand. If you are a Christian you won't entertain the desires the will entice you. If you do you aren't really saved now are you?

[Justaned]

Why is it you can never answer my questions but you can ignore them and make accusations about me. But if I don't answer your questions then I'm avoiding you?