Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHAT IS LORDSHIP SALVATION????

[Justaned]

This discussion started because I said a true Christian does not willfully sin. That if Jesus is in fact Lord of your life willful sin will never even be an option.

Rocky said that is Lordship Salvation.

I told Rocky I never heard of it.

Rock then said people have called it heretical because it makes making Jesus Lord a requirement of salvation.

I told Rocky I have never heard of such at thing and repeatedly asked for quotes, teaching, or something that bears this out.

Rocky finally supplied a video railing against Lordship Salvation the makes making Jesus Lord of one's life before they can be saved. I agree that is heretical but I have never seen anyone suggest this.

Rocky then cited MacArthur as teaching Lordship Salvation. MacArthur's teaching is against easy believism or hyper faith. He is saying you can't be living in sin and claim to be saved. You can't be serving the world/flesh and Jesus. I totally agree.

I asked Rocky to show me where MacArthur ever said a person has to accept Jesus as Lord before they can be saved.

He now says I refuse to listen. I ask what more could I do? Say he is right? When in fact Scripture says he is wrong! A saved person can not be in willful sin and claim salvation. If Jesus is in fact Lord of their life as stipulated in scripture that He must be, sin will not be part of their thought process.

[Rocky]

Ed wrote: I asked Rocky to show me where MacArthur ever said a person has to accept Jesus as Lord before they can be saved.

Oh Lordship salvation and MacArther does not teach this for initial salvation?

John MacArther: "Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith"

Jesus:Whoem soever beleveth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life

John MacArther :"Saving faith is a placing of oneself totally in submission to the Lord Jesus Christ"

Jesus: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day

John MacArther:Coming to Christ means you give up the control of your life, and you yield it to Christ

Peter: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Paul: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Paul: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now for what ever reason what MacArhter says may sound go to you Ed, but this not biblical according to the evidence I have provided here. Oh and Ed for about the 5th time I am still waiting on Scripture to back this theology up.

Disclaimer- So Ed cannot claim that I believe in Hyper grace or OSAS or that Christian can kick the dog, beat the wife, kill the mailman, Chug Beer spread their self in peanut butter naked and howl at the moon, and live in sin and remain a Christian. I believe once someone is Born again he must obey the conditions of the Gospel because the believer still has free will, and can loose his salvation if he does not. The above I gave are both John MacArther quotes and Versus from the Bible. And the above quotes and verses are perspectives on initial salvation P.s. If someone calls them self a christian and wants to do those things Then they are just a few French fries short of a Happy meal. Because I don't care who you are everyone on this planet knows that a Christian is supposed to wanna live right. That should go with out saying. Do we really need some Calvinistic based theology to explain all of that. I have a 6 yeard old that at least understands that? It is not Jesus's fault the he said all you must do is believe to be born again or its not the bibles fault or these scriptures fault that they are Fake Christian out there, I mean come on, does someone really need to be told, "hey you are a Christian don't live like you use to"? I mean who in this country does not know that? unless they are a total nimrods.
+pieface

[Justaned]

Ed wrote: I asked Rocky to show me where MacArthur ever said a person has to accept Jesus as Lord before they can be saved.

Oh Lordship salvation and MacArther does not teach this for initial salvation?

John MacArther: "Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith"

Jesus:Whoem soever beleveth in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life

John MacArther :"Saving faith is a placing of oneself totally in submission to the Lord Jesus Christ"

Jesus: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day

John MacArther:Coming to Christ means you give up the control of your life, and you yield it to Christ

Peter: To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Paul: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Paul: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now for what ever reason what MacArhter says may sound go to you Ed, but this not biblical according to the evidence I have provided here. Oh and Ed for about the 5th time I am still waiting on Scripture to back this theology up.

Disclaimer- So Ed cannot claim that I believe in Hyper grace or OSAS or that Christian can kick the dog, beat the wife, kill the mailman, Chug Beer spread their self in peanut butter naked and howl at the moon, and live in sin and remain a Christian. I believe once someone is Born again he must obey the conditions of the Gospel because the believer still has free will, and can loose his salvation if he does not. The above I gave are both John MacArther quotes and Versus from the Bible. And the above quotes and verses are perspectives on initial salvation P.s. If someone calls them self a christian and wants to do those things Then they are just a few French fries short of a Happy meal. Because I don't care who you are everyone on this planet knows that a Christian is supposed to wanna live right. That should go with out saying. Do we really need some Calvinistic based theology to explain all of that. I have a 6 yeard old that at least understands that? It is not Jesus's fault the he said all you must do is believe to be born again or its not the bibles fault or these scriptures fault that they are Fake Christian out there, I mean come on, does someone really need to be told, "hey you are a Christian don't live like you use to"? I mean who in this country does not know that? unless they are a total nimrods.
+pieface

Where is there any mention that a person must do this to be saved. If you read MacArthur in context it is clear he is speaking of a mature Christians. Yes we have a free will, we freely and eagerly give Jesus Lordship of our life. To attempt to control it ourselves will lead to disaster as proven by every unsaved person. If we could freely choose to live a righteous life there would be no need of the Cross.
Read the Old Testament man is incapable of being righteous without God's help. I really don't see your objection Rocky.

You agree you can't be a saved and sin yet you seem to think it is you the determines whether you sin or not. Sounds like you are in constant battle with the flesh. Give up and let Jesus be Lord He fought the battle and Jesus won!!!
Take you flesh to the cross and nail it there, it is no longer you that lives but Christ that lives within you.

[Rocky]

I see you have conveniently ignored MacArthur's quotes are any thing I said yet again. lol Are you ever going to give scripture or anything to prove your points. Or actually address anything?

Ed: Give up and let Jesus be Lord He fought the battle and Jesus won!!!
Take you flesh to the cross and nail it there, it is no longer you that lives but Christ that lives within you

Really Ed really, So now you are going question my relation with Christ because I do not agree with your MacArther? You did a reply fail. Epic fail Ed, Epic FAIL!

[Justaned]

I see you have conveniently ignored MacArthur's quotes are any thing I said yet again. lol Are you ever going to give scripture or anything to prove your points. Or actually address anything?

Ed: Give up and let Jesus be Lord He fought the battle and Jesus won!!!
Take you flesh to the cross and nail it there, it is no longer you that lives but Christ that lives within you

Really Ed really, So now you are going question my relation with Christ because I do not agree with your MacArther? You did a reply fail. Epic fail Ed, Epic FAIL!

I never ignored any of MacArthur's quotes you gave. I said how about putting them into context. He was talking of mature believers not someone seeking salvation. You implied he said this was a requirement of initial salvation when in fact he is saying it should be the conduct of someone once they are saved.

You are the one that is saying Jesus doesn't have to be Lord of our lives and nearly ever passage of scripture calls Jesus Lord, why? Do you think they like the term? Do you think it is nothing more than a mere title. To call Jesus Lord one must believe that Jesus is in fact Lord of their lives. That is why I question your relationship. You want Jesus to be Lord in title only and you want to retain your free will. You can't! Scripture says if you are in Christ you are a servant bought with a price. That prices was Jesus' life. Scripture says crucify the flesh, that means your free will also. It is not longer you that lives but Christ who lives in you. Your will doesn't factor in other than choosing to submit or not.

[Rocky]

Ed I never not once said that Jesus doesn't have to be Lord of our lives I say that the bible does not say that this is a condition for being born again as Lordship salvation teaches for initial salvation. And no Crucifying the flesh does not mean giving up your free will. You are just attacking me because you know I do not agree with MacArthur. I have never said the things you say I said. Why do you resort to this all of the time? You Judge me yet you spread false teachings and theology all over this forum. Are you sure perhaps it is you that need to reevaluate your relationship with Christ? You are judging me and My salvation now because you accuse me of saying things I never said because you know I do not agree with your calvinistic Macarthur mindset. I admit At least you are getting more creative with getting the focus off of the discussion because you usually have nothing other than resorting to this and just arguing for the sake of arguing, so what is really your point here? This is why I use gifs and pictures and joking around with you because it is hard to take you seriously when you do this. May be you should repent of your hypocrisy and arrogance. Now lets just get back to the discussion and actually start addressing things I really say, or really what the thread is about. You would be crying and calling foul and putting up your little attacking quote thing by now if I were doing these things to you. Ed do you know that is called? hypocrisy..

[Justaned]

Ed I never not once said that Jesus doesn't have to be Lord of our lives I say that the bible does not say that this is a condition for being born again as Lordship salvation teaches for initial salvation. And no Crucifying the flesh does not mean giving up your free will. You are just attacking me because you know I do not agree with MacArthur. I have never said the things you say I said. Why do you resort to this all of the time? You Judge me yet you spread false teachings and theology all over this forum and quite frankly perhaps it is you that need to reevaluate your relationship with Christ. You are judging me and My salvation now because you accuse me of saying things I never said because you know I do not not agree with your calvinistic Macarthur mindset. I admit At least you are getting more creative with the focus of the discussion because you usually have nothing other then resorting to this and just arguing for the sake of arguing, so what is really your point here?. May be you should repent of your hypocrisy and arrogance. Now lets just get back to the discussion and actually start addressing things I really say, or really what the thread is about, or lets just quit because you infantil belittling replies and getting tired.

Rocky
If you agree that Jesus must be Lord of your life how do you fold in free will? Either Jesus is in charge or you are. It is one of the other. Your only choice is to live like Christ desires you to live or not to. If you don't how can you believe being in conflict with the will of God in your life is living a saved life?

[Rocky]

Thank you for finally actually addressing some thing, oh and sorry for getting angry at you. You are a challenging to discuss things with, perhaps God is trying to teach me patience lol. Now we get to the meat of this with this question, and this is a great question by the way. Despite your claims Lordship is rooted in Calvinism. Another aspect of this theology is that a true Christian cant backslid because the Free will is surrendered. That God actually controls the actions of the believer in essence and prevents the believer from sinning or falling away because he made him Lord. Now I know you and I disagree about backsliding. In essence God is in Control and causes you to not sin you so cant fall always. This is why a lot of Armenians are against this theology. as I am..

[Justaned]

Thank you for finally actually addressing some thing, oh and sorry for getting angry at you. You are a challenging to discuss things with, perhaps God is trying to teach me patience lol. Now we get to the meat of this with this question, and this is a great question by the way. Despite your claims Lordship is rooted in Calvinism. Another aspect of this theology is that a true Christian cant backslid because the Free will is surrendered. That God actually controls the actions of the believer in essence and prevents the believer from sinning or falling away because he made him Lord. Now I know you and I disagree about backsliding. In essence God is in Control and causes you to not sin you so cant fall always. This is why a lot of Armenians are against this theology. as I am..

You said it was a great question but you never answered it.
Here is the question

If you agree that Jesus must be Lord of your life how do you fold in free will? Either Jesus is in charge or you are. It is one or the other. Your only choice is to live like Christ desires you to live or not to. If you don't how can you believe being in conflict with the will of God in your life is living a saved life?

Forget about Calvinism/Aminianism MacArthur or what is his name my theology or yours. Just focus on the questions.

[branham1965]

ive got just one thing to say....

i would NOT ever listen to anything Mr.Macarthur said,wrote,preached or taught........

HE IS A FALSE TEACHER !!!!!NOT A SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY BY ANY MEANS...