Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WOF teachers that believe in OSAS?

[bibleman]

QUESTION do you know with any citations or references what popular WOF teachers believe about OSAS or the Hyper-grace teaching?

VictoryWord - saw that you commented on this forum. Do you have a list with references? If anybody will have it I guess you would have, since you are so detailed in your writings with citations!

I found this on another forum.

I will withhold my personal opinion for later. I consider that the OP is looking for evidence of what various "famous" faith teachers teach as opposed to my personal opinion. I will try and reference my comments:

Jesse DuPlantis is against OSAS. Evidence for this can be found in his video teaching "What In Hell Do I Want?".

Andrew Wommack is opposed to OSAS. He was teaching through Hebrews, and in dealing with Hebrews 6, taught against it as per verse 3-5. He also has an audio tape called "Once Saved, Always Saved?"

Charles Capps is opposed to OSAS. I can get the web address of the streaming video where he says that just because it is called "eternal life" doesn't mean it cannot be lost; the life is still eternal life, but you just don't have it. The sermon was preached at Family Harvest Church, Chicago, and the statement was very strongly applauded.

Kenneth Hagin does not believe in OSAS. This is documented in "I Believe in Visions" where he talks about a person who loses their salvation due to a heart attitude of sin.

Yongii Cho does not believe in OSAS. In his commentary on Daniel or Revelation (I cannot remember which, sorry) he states that a member of his church lost their salvation due to gross sexual sin and a lack of repentance. He says that he saw the anointing and salvation leave the person.

Michael Reid believes that you cannot lose your salvation. Once God has done his work of grace in your heart, then it cannot be undone. I know I have a book somewhere where he explains this. I think it might be his "Faith: It's God Given" book, but I would have to check.

Bob Yandian does not believe in OSAS. I have seen him state that on his Precepts programme talking about the gifts of God.

Colin Urqhuart does not believe in OSAS. He preached a sermon on Revelation 20-22 last year or the previous year at Faith Camp where he stated that Christians who live in a continual state of sin and rebellion to God have their place in the lake of fire.

Derek Prince does not believe in OSAS. This is found in his book "The Spirit-Filled Believer's Handbook" when discussing repentance and the role of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2963408/

[victoryword]

Hey Bibleman

The guy who wrote that list is a very close friend of mine (King Zzub). His actual name is Benjamin Conway and he pastors a growing Word-Faith church over in London. He is also has an anointed healing ministry. I don't know if you noticed but I was the one who started that thread but I never remembered it until you linked it. I also see some contradictions in my testimony concerning OSAS. There was a time I was somewhat OSAS until God enlightened me against it by reminding me of James 1:13. But now that thread is closed so its too late for me to clarify that.

However, I wonder if my buddy, King Zzub is absolutely correct about Womack and Yandian since others have told me just the opposite about them. I will see if Zzub is willing to come to the forum and enlighten us more.

As far as citations, probably the only one I have immediately available besides the ones on the forum by Dr. Hicks and Finis Dake (and not so well known Ted M. Rouse) is this one by Kenneth Hagin that I cited in my book, "What we Believe and Teach: Victorious Word Christian Fellowship" (http://www.victoriouswordchurch.org/tea ... mphlet.pdf):

• I believe in eternal security as long as you stay in Christ. He is able to keep you secure. But just because you are a son of God does not mean you are not a free moral agent. You still have a will of your own, and you can choose to stay in Christ or to forsake Christ altogether. - Hagin, Kenneth E. The Present Day Ministry of Jesus Christ (Tulsa, OK: Kenneth E. Hagin Ministries, 1983), pp. 11, 12

Sounds like a future project for me to find more Word-Faith quotes on OSAS

[victoryword]

I started reading through that thread (man, I had forgotten all about that debate. That was way back in 2005). I found that I had given a fuller quote from Kenneth E. Hagin:

• Today there are not too many old school Calvinists -- their doctrines have been watered down -- but now there are "new school Calvinists." "New school Calvinism" is basically the doctrine of eternal security, or "once saved always saved,"
  
  I believe in eternal security as long as you stay in Christ. He is able to keep you secure. But just because you are a son of God does not mean you are not a free moral agent. You still have a will of your own, and you can choose to stay in Christ or to forsake Christ altogether.
  
  The Arminian side is not correct either. They think that when you commit the smallest sin you are immediately lost and need to be saved all over again ...
  
  Then there are those who believe that God expects us to live above sin. They believe in going on to perfection. I do, too, but I haven't arrived there yet. If we already were perfect, we would not have anything to go on to. (Kenneth E. Hagin, The Present Day MInistry of Jesus Christ, pp. 11, 12; Emphasis his)

[bibleman]

Hey Bibleman

The guy who wrote that list is a very close friend of mine (King Zzub). His actual name is Benjamin Conway and he pastors a growing Word-Faith church over in London. He is also has an anointed healing ministry. I don't know if you noticed but I was the one who started that thread but I never remembered it until you linked it. I also see some contradictions in my testimony concerning OSAS. There was a time I was somewhat OSAS until God enlightened me against it by reminding me of James 1:13. But now that thread is closed so its too late for me to clarify that.

However, I wonder if my buddy, King Zzub is absolutely correct about Womack and Yandian since others have told me just the opposite about them. I will see if Zzub is willing to come to the forum and enlighten us more.

As far as citations, probably the only one I have immediately available besides the ones on the forum by Dr. Hicks and Finis Dake (and not so well known Ted M. Rouse) is this one by Kenneth Hagin that I cited in my book, "What we Believe and Teach: Victorious Word Christian Fellowship" (http://www.victoriouswordchurch.org/tea ... mphlet.pdf):

• I believe in eternal security as long as you stay in Christ. He is able to keep you secure. But just because you are a son of God does not mean you are not a free moral agent. You still have a will of your own, and you can choose to stay in Christ or to forsake Christ altogether. - Hagin, Kenneth E. The Present Day Ministry of Jesus Christ (Tulsa, OK: Kenneth E. Hagin Ministries, 1983), pp. 11, 12

Sounds like a future project for me to find more Word-Faith quotes on OSAS

Troy,

Thank you so much.

I am indeed grateful.

Maybe this could be a project that both you and ED could work together on!

[JAMEY]

I found this on Andrew Wommack's website.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/redemption

[victoryword]

Maybe this could be a project that both you and ED could work together on!

I've learned to stay away from situations that would cause me to sin: Watching bad movies, going to night clubs, looking at the magazine rack in most stores, working on projects with people I might end up choking half to death, etc.

[victoryword]

I found this on Andrew Wommack's website.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/redemption

Womack is definitely OSAS.

[Rocky]

I always thought that Hyper grace is not the same as OSAS, all though both are in error. Hyper grace to me is the Arminian version of OSAS.

[Rocky]

I found this on Andrew Wommack's website.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/redemption

Womack is definitely OSAS.

Andrew Wommack: We don’t have to ask Jesus to forgive our sins; He’s already done it.

The Bible: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

[victoryword]

I found this on Andrew Wommack's website.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/redemption

Womack is definitely OSAS.

Andrew Wommack: We don’t have to ask Jesus to forgive our sins; He’s already done it.

The Bible: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Sadly, that is the staple of the hyper-grace teaching.