Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ WHAT IS LORDSHIP SALVATION????

[branham1965]

im wondering ...folks are saying to address things but then do not.


what are the takes here on the Lordship Salvation issue

i saw this discussed in the 1980's between the Baptists and Mr.Macarthur.

most Calvinists -Baptists opposed this with all their might.after the Blood denial they were ready to tar and feather JM.

but its unbelievable that we ...we Arminians of every label and creed cheered for it!!! +pieface


hello... someone please say something...

[Rocky]

Wow, this is weird I was going to start a thread about Lordship salvation lol
It is a soteriological theology. In a sense the unbeliever is working his way to salvation, and then when it is obtained by making Jesus lord the Christian will not lose his salvation because the Christian is unable to sin or willfully sin. Essentially God controls the will and keeps the Christian from sinning as long as they have succeeded in making Jesus lord, the theology also teaches if the Christian does sin he did not make Jesus lord when he initially converted hence the conversion was false. Its like saying you must believe but also make Jesus Lord, So the unbeliever is trying to do something he is unable to do. To me it just another confusing man made theology that confuses the simplicity of the Gospel. Another aspect of this is when the unbeliever believes and then makes him lord(which does not have a clear definition by the way) That this will automatically produce the works necessary to obtain salvation. And a true Christian wont willfully sin and automatic fruit will bare because they have made Jesus Lord, so intern the free will is done away with .Now this is not to be confused with calvinism but both take free will away from the believer. So both theologies are compatible with each other because most calvinist now days are also lordship salvation as well, but not all.

[branham1965]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME
i never knew thats what that entailed.i nearly went to OSU after the last row on that stuff.

Rocky
i tip my cap to you mate.you are younger and epochs smarter than a old feller like me.
you are well read ,smart ,witty,articulate.and a credit to the good Lord.
you are a DBB blue ribbon VIP man.

Wow, this is weird I was going to start a thread about Lordship salvation lol
It is a soteriological theology. In a sense the unbeliever is working his way to salvation, and then when it is obtained by making Jesus lord the Christian will not lose his salvation because the Christian is unable to sin or willfully sin. Essentially God controls the will and keeps the Christian from sinning as long as they have succeeded in making Jesus lord, the theology also teaches if the Christian does sin he did not make Jesus lord when he initially converted hence the conversion was false. Its like saying you must believe but also make Jesus Lord, So the unbeliever is trying to do something he is unable to do. To me it just another confusing man made theology that confuses the simplicity of the Gospel. Another aspect of this is when the unbeliever believes and then makes him lord(which does not have a clear definition by the way) That this will automatically produce the works necessary to obtain salvation. And a true Christian wont willfully sin and automatic fruit will bare because they have made Jesus Lord, so intern the free will is done away with .Now this is not to be confused with calvinism but both take free will away from the believer. So both theologies are compatible with each other because most calvinist now days are also lordship salvation as well, but not all.

[cpbeller]

Wow, this is weird I was going to start a thread about Lordship salvation lol
It is a soteriological theology. In a sense the unbeliever is working his way to salvation, and then when it is obtained by making Jesus lord the Christian will not lose his salvation because the Christian is unable to sin or willfully sin. Essentially God controls the will and keeps the Christian from sinning as long as they have succeeded in making Jesus lord, the theology also teaches if the Christian does sin he did not make Jesus lord when he initially converted hence the conversion was false. Its like saying you must believe but also make Jesus Lord, So the unbeliever is trying to do something he is unable to do. To me it just another confusing man made theology that confuses the simplicity of the Gospel. Another aspect of this is when the unbeliever believes and then makes him lord(which does not have a clear definition by the way) That this will automatically produce the works necessary to obtain salvation. And a true Christian wont willfully sin and automatic fruit will bare because they have made Jesus Lord, so intern the free will is done away with .Now this is not to be confused with calvinism but both take free will away from the believer. So both theologies are compatible with each other because most calvinist now days are also lordship salvation as well, but not all.

Sounds kinda like someone we all already know, doesn't it?

[Justaned]

Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections
From Theopedia http://www.theopedia.com/Lordship_salvation

Lordship salvation
"By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." (1 John 3:10, ESV)
Lordship salvation is the position that receiving Christ involves a turning in the heart from sin and, as a part of faith, a submissive commitment to obey Jesus Christ as Lord. It also maintains that progressive sanctification and perseverance must necessarily follow conversion. Those who hold to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints see this not only as a requirement, but an assured certainty according to the sustaining grace of Christ.

The doctrine of lordship salvation has implications for evangelism, assurance, and the pursuit of holiness. The grace of God in salvation not only forgives, but transforms, and a lack of obedience or transformation in a person's life is warrant to doubt that they have been born again. The grounds for assurance include not only the objective promises of God (like John 3:16), but also the internal testimony of the Spirit (Romans 8:16) and holiness the Spirit produces in our lives (1 John 2:3-4,19).

The non-lordship salvation position is popularly known by critics as "easy believism", and by adherents as "free grace". However, proponents of Lordship salvation frown upon this usage of the term "free grace", as the free grace spoken of in the Bible both justifies the sinner and transforms the heart unto obedience.

[Rocky]

Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections
From Theopedia http://www.theopedia.com/Lordship_salvation

.

The irony of you saying "Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections" is that that the link is from a calvinistic website. The webmaster and admins are Lordship salvation and Calvinism adherents . And their definition is double talk jargon to confuse the issue of how unbiblical this theology really is. Of course that is a "Personal reflection"..

[victoryword]

Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections
From Theopedia http://www.theopedia.com/Lordship_salvation

.

The irony of you saying "Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections" is that that the link is from a calvinistic website. The webmaster and admins are Lordship salvation and Calvinism adherents . And their definition is double talk jargon to confuse the issue of how unbiblical this theology really is. Of course that is a "Personal reflection"..

I didn't even have to go to the site. From the quote itself it begins to talk about the "P" in TULIP and I knew right away that this would be a problematic definition. The problem is that there is some truth in the definition ("....receiving Christ involves a turning in the heart from sin and, as a part of faith, a submissive commitment to obey Jesus Christ as Lord.") This I agree with. However, when they added the "also" then we get the poison that was placed ona piece of meat:

"Those who hold to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints see this not only as a requirement, but an assured certainty according to the sustaining grace of Christ."

THis is nothing but "unconditional election" which is one of the most horrendous false teachings that the Calvinists vomited out to the theological sphere.

[Justaned]

Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections
From Theopedia http://www.theopedia.com/Lordship_salvation

.

The irony of you saying "Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections" is that that the link is from a calvinistic website. The webmaster and admins are Lordship salvation and Calvinism adherents . And their definition is double talk jargon to confuse the issue of how unbiblical this theology really is. Of course that is a "Personal reflection"..

Irony is there isn't any double talk and what you object to is the fact that it does not issue a condemning conclusion.
The fact that it is written by "Calvinistic website" is logical since it is a product of the Reformation.

Actually the discussion goes back the book of James and requirements of faith.

Removed my opinions as not appropriate at this point where we are trying to establish a definition rather than examine lordship.

[Justaned]

Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections
From Theopedia http://www.theopedia.com/Lordship_salvation

.

The irony of you saying "Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections" is that that the link is from a calvinistic website. The webmaster and admins are Lordship salvation and Calvinism adherents . And their definition is double talk jargon to confuse the issue of how unbiblical this theology really is. Of course that is a "Personal reflection"..

I didn't even have to go to the site. From the quote itself it begins to talk about the "P" in TULIP and I knew right away that this would be a problematic definition. The problem is that there is some truth in the definition ("....receiving Christ involves a turning in the heart from sin and, as a part of faith, a submissive commitment to obey Jesus Christ as Lord.") This I agree with. However, when they added the "also" then we get the poison that was placed ona piece of meat:

"Those who hold to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints see this not only as a requirement, but an assured certainty according to the sustaining grace of Christ."

THis is nothing but "unconditional election" which is one of the most horrendous false teachings that the Calvinists vomited out to the theological sphere.

I understand your hatred of Calvinism. I hate it too. However problems of Calvinism or even Lordship is not part of this discussion. This thread was established to give an accurate definition of Lordship.

What is Lordship? Not who invented/named it? Or what is wrong with it? But what is it?

[Reuben]

Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections
From Theopedia http://www.theopedia.com/Lordship_salvation

.

The irony of you saying "Here is a definition without personal implications or reflections" is that that the link is from a calvinistic website. The webmaster and admins are Lordship salvation and Calvinism adherents . And their definition is double talk jargon to confuse the issue of how unbiblical this theology really is. Of course that is a "Personal reflection"..

Thank you Rocky for bearing that out. I had a suspicion it was biased when I read the last line...