Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Did Peter lose his salvation?

[bibleman]

So then since a "real Christian" has a sin nature is he capable of willfully sinning?

Not if Jesus is Lord of His Life but he will sin unintentionally, until he gets his perfected body and no longer has a sin nature.

Ed,

Explain how a person unintentionally commits adultery!

He doesn't he willfully and intentionally commits adultery but he can't claim to be Christian either.

That's right because he backslid - and if he does not get back right with God he will go to Hell for that sin.

Nope he was never a Christian. How can you be a christian if you still sin? To be in Christ Jesus must be Lord of your life when does the Lord tell you it is okay to do what you want, to sin? Never so that proves Jesus wasn't Lord of his life therefore he was never in Christ.

He was saved for 40 years, lived right, went on mission trips, pastored 6 churches, gave all his money aways to the poor, helped the needy...

Then he committed willful adultery!

Are you saying he was never a Christian?

[branham1965]

you
got him whooped Pastor.
but he wont concede.
hes like the Japs in ww2.they would have fought until the last man was shot dead.Hitler admired the orientals because they were so nuts.
it took 2 atom bombs and General Macarthur to get them to sign the armistice.

I GIVE THE KNOCK OUT TO REVEREND BIBLE BECAUSE OF THIS POST.
ED IS VERY BULLISH AND TENACIOUS.IN FACT HE COULD MAKE MY UNCLE BUD AND MY EXFATHER IN LAW A MILITANT CAMPBELLITE LOOK LIKE A COUPLE PIKERS.

ED IS THROWING AND LANDING SOME GOOD BLOWS...LEON FEINTS BOBS WEAVES LEADS WITH WITH THE JAB AND THEN OVERHAND RIGHT ON THE CHIN FOLLOWS WITH THE LEFT HOOK DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!!DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!! DOWN GOES FRAZIER!!!!!!...........

whew....

[video][/video]

[Justaned]

So then since a "real Christian" has a sin nature is he capable of willfully sinning?

Not if Jesus is Lord of His Life but he will sin unintentionally, until he gets his perfected body and no longer has a sin nature.

Ed,

Explain how a person unintentionally commits adultery!

He doesn't he willfully and intentionally commits adultery but he can't claim to be Christian either.

That's right because he backslid - and if he does not get back right with God he will go to Hell for that sin.

Nope he was never a Christian. How can you be a christian if you still sin? To be in Christ Jesus must be Lord of your life when does the Lord tell you it is okay to do what you want, to sin? Never so that proves Jesus wasn't Lord of his life therefore he was never in Christ.

Ed you say a Christian can willfully sin, but if he does he cant comeback, and then you see if a Christian willfully sins he was not really saved in the first place.

dou·ble–talk : language that appears to be earnest and meaningful but in fact is a mixture of sense and nonsense : inflated, involved, and often deliberately ambiguous language Another variant of "doubletalk is doublespeak. Doublespeak has been linked to the sociological perspective known as conflict theories..

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

[Rocky]

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

But you have said a real Christian cant and willfully and then you say if he does he cant come back, But you just said a Christian will not willfully sin, Ed that to me is double speaking. So which is it? Go back in look at all of you statements you are saying some really outlandish and absurd things. You are basing a whole theology around these verses and your understanding contradicts other verses. That's what you are not seeing and the rest of us do. So if you are right then the bible is a contradiction. You have some very twisted theology here.

[Justaned]

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

But you have said a real Christian cant and willfully and then you say if he does he cant come back, But you just said a Christian will not willfully sin, Ed that to me is double speaking. So which is it? Go back in look at all of you statements you are saying some really outlandish and absurd things. You are basing a whole theology around these verses and your understanding contradicts other verses. That's what you are not seeing and the rest of us do. So if you are right then the bible is a contradiction. You have some very twisted theology here.

It is only double talk to people that are trying to trip me up.
I don't think I basing my whole theology on "these" verses as you call them. I'm simply saying, the church has invented something that is basically OSAS. Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense.

I'm not suggesting that Christians never sin, I am saying true Christians don't willfully set out to sin, and if someone claiming to be a christian sets out to sin there is something wrong. As a Chrisitian we are to make Jesus Lord of our lives. If Jesus is Lord then where does this willful sin come from? Are you suggesting that Jesus is only part time?
We are also told the Holy Spirit that dwells within us convicts of sin. If we are willfully and deliberately sinning where is the Holy Spirit and what are we doing about His conviction?

Tell me since you claim to have been a Christian and then entered into sin, was Jesus Lord in you life? If so how did you get around Jesus to sin. If you had the Holy Spirit within you screaming conviction at you as you planned your sin how did you over come him. When did you stop making Jesus Lord of your life? What did Jesus say when you did that. Is Jesus in fact Lord of your life now, in practice of just in word only?

Here is the thing Rocky I'm a christian and I sin from time to time, if someone pulls out in front of me and I call him a * head and wish he would die a slow death that is sin but I don't believe I have lost my salvation over that. However I likewise believe I could not intentionally plan and execute a bank hold up without being so convicted that I would stop. If I didn't stop I would question how I as able to over come the Jesus and the Holy Spirit enough to throw down my new creation and pick up my old. I don't think I could. However I have no way of finding out because I don't intend to rob a bank. If Jesus is Lord I just don't see how someone goes against that.

[bibleman]

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

But you have said a real Christian cant and willfully and then you say if he does he cant come back, But you just said a Christian will not willfully sin, Ed that to me is double speaking. So which is it? Go back in look at all of you statements you are saying some really outlandish and absurd things. You are basing a whole theology around these verses and your understanding contradicts other verses. That's what you are not seeing and the rest of us do. So if you are right then the bible is a contradiction. You have some very twisted theology here.

It is only double talk to people that are trying to trip me up.
I don't think I basing my whole theology on "these" verses as you call them. I'm simply saying, the church has invented something that is basically OSAS. Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense.

I'm not suggesting that Christians never sin, I am saying true Christians don't willfully set out to sin, and if someone claiming to be a christian sets out to sin there is something wrong. As a Chrisitian we are to make Jesus Lord of our lives. If Jesus is Lord then where does this willful sin come from? Are you suggesting that Jesus is only part time?
We are also told the Holy Spirit that dwells within us convicts of sin. If we are willfully and deliberately sinning where is the Holy Spirit and what are we doing about His conviction?

Tell me since you claim to have been a Christian and then entered into sin, was Jesus Lord in you life? If so how did you get around Jesus to sin. If you had the Holy Spirit within you screaming conviction at you as you planned your sin how did you over come him. When did you stop making Jesus Lord of your life? What did Jesus say when you did that. Is Jesus in fact Lord of your life now, in practice of just in word only?

Here is the thing Rocky I'm a christian and I sin from time to time, if someone pulls out in front of me and I call him a * head and wish he would die a slow death that is sin but I don't believe I have lost my salvation over that. However I likewise believe I could not intentionally plan and execute a bank hold up without being so convicted that I would stop. If I didn't stop I would question how I as able to over come the Jesus and the Holy Spirit enough to throw down my new creation and pick up my old. I don't think I could. However I have no way of finding out because I don't intend to rob a bank. If Jesus is Lord I just don't see how someone goes against that.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense."

Got any Scripture that says it is nonsense as you say above?

[Justaned]

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

But you have said a real Christian cant and willfully and then you say if he does he cant come back, But you just said a Christian will not willfully sin, Ed that to me is double speaking. So which is it? Go back in look at all of you statements you are saying some really outlandish and absurd things. You are basing a whole theology around these verses and your understanding contradicts other verses. That's what you are not seeing and the rest of us do. So if you are right then the bible is a contradiction. You have some very twisted theology here.

It is only double talk to people that are trying to trip me up.
I don't think I basing my whole theology on "these" verses as you call them. I'm simply saying, the church has invented something that is basically OSAS. Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense.

I'm not suggesting that Christians never sin, I am saying true Christians don't willfully set out to sin, and if someone claiming to be a christian sets out to sin there is something wrong. As a Chrisitian we are to make Jesus Lord of our lives. If Jesus is Lord then where does this willful sin come from? Are you suggesting that Jesus is only part time?
We are also told the Holy Spirit that dwells within us convicts of sin. If we are willfully and deliberately sinning where is the Holy Spirit and what are we doing about His conviction?

Tell me since you claim to have been a Christian and then entered into sin, was Jesus Lord in you life? If so how did you get around Jesus to sin. If you had the Holy Spirit within you screaming conviction at you as you planned your sin how did you over come him. When did you stop making Jesus Lord of your life? What did Jesus say when you did that. Is Jesus in fact Lord of your life now, in practice of just in word only?

Here is the thing Rocky I'm a christian and I sin from time to time, if someone pulls out in front of me and I call him a * head and wish he would die a slow death that is sin but I don't believe I have lost my salvation over that. However I likewise believe I could not intentionally plan and execute a bank hold up without being so convicted that I would stop. If I didn't stop I would question how I as able to over come the Jesus and the Holy Spirit enough to throw down my new creation and pick up my old. I don't think I could. However I have no way of finding out because I don't intend to rob a bank. If Jesus is Lord I just don't see how someone goes against that.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense."

Got any Scripture that says it is nonsense as you say above?

Well isn't that what you teach? Don't you teach that if you sin you loose your salvation until you repent and then you gain it back?
So couldn't someone hearing you conclude that they can sin say they are sorry and ask forgiveness and be right again, then repeat the process over and over and over?

[bibleman]

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

But you have said a real Christian cant and willfully and then you say if he does he cant come back, But you just said a Christian will not willfully sin, Ed that to me is double speaking. So which is it? Go back in look at all of you statements you are saying some really outlandish and absurd things. You are basing a whole theology around these verses and your understanding contradicts other verses. That's what you are not seeing and the rest of us do. So if you are right then the bible is a contradiction. You have some very twisted theology here.

It is only double talk to people that are trying to trip me up.
I don't think I basing my whole theology on "these" verses as you call them. I'm simply saying, the church has invented something that is basically OSAS. Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense.

I'm not suggesting that Christians never sin, I am saying true Christians don't willfully set out to sin, and if someone claiming to be a christian sets out to sin there is something wrong. As a Chrisitian we are to make Jesus Lord of our lives. If Jesus is Lord then where does this willful sin come from? Are you suggesting that Jesus is only part time?
We are also told the Holy Spirit that dwells within us convicts of sin. If we are willfully and deliberately sinning where is the Holy Spirit and what are we doing about His conviction?

Tell me since you claim to have been a Christian and then entered into sin, was Jesus Lord in you life? If so how did you get around Jesus to sin. If you had the Holy Spirit within you screaming conviction at you as you planned your sin how did you over come him. When did you stop making Jesus Lord of your life? What did Jesus say when you did that. Is Jesus in fact Lord of your life now, in practice of just in word only?

Here is the thing Rocky I'm a christian and I sin from time to time, if someone pulls out in front of me and I call him a * head and wish he would die a slow death that is sin but I don't believe I have lost my salvation over that. However I likewise believe I could not intentionally plan and execute a bank hold up without being so convicted that I would stop. If I didn't stop I would question how I as able to over come the Jesus and the Holy Spirit enough to throw down my new creation and pick up my old. I don't think I could. However I have no way of finding out because I don't intend to rob a bank. If Jesus is Lord I just don't see how someone goes against that.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense."

Got any Scripture that says it is nonsense as you say above?

Well isn't that what you teach? Don't you teach that if you sin you loose your salvation until you repent and then you gain it back?
So couldn't someone hearing you conclude that they can sin say they are sorry and ask forgiveness and be right again, then repeat the process over and over and over?

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "So couldn't someone hearing you conclude that they can sin say they are sorry and ask forgiveness and be right again, then repeat the process over and over and over?"

I would hope so!

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

OK back to my question of your lack of support for your statement - what I thought - you have NO Scripture to support your claim.

[Justaned]

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

But you have said a real Christian cant and willfully and then you say if he does he cant come back, But you just said a Christian will not willfully sin, Ed that to me is double speaking. So which is it? Go back in look at all of you statements you are saying some really outlandish and absurd things. You are basing a whole theology around these verses and your understanding contradicts other verses. That's what you are not seeing and the rest of us do. So if you are right then the bible is a contradiction. You have some very twisted theology here.

It is only double talk to people that are trying to trip me up.
I don't think I basing my whole theology on "these" verses as you call them. I'm simply saying, the church has invented something that is basically OSAS. Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense.

I'm not suggesting that Christians never sin, I am saying true Christians don't willfully set out to sin, and if someone claiming to be a christian sets out to sin there is something wrong. As a Chrisitian we are to make Jesus Lord of our lives. If Jesus is Lord then where does this willful sin come from? Are you suggesting that Jesus is only part time?
We are also told the Holy Spirit that dwells within us convicts of sin. If we are willfully and deliberately sinning where is the Holy Spirit and what are we doing about His conviction?

Tell me since you claim to have been a Christian and then entered into sin, was Jesus Lord in you life? If so how did you get around Jesus to sin. If you had the Holy Spirit within you screaming conviction at you as you planned your sin how did you over come him. When did you stop making Jesus Lord of your life? What did Jesus say when you did that. Is Jesus in fact Lord of your life now, in practice of just in word only?

Here is the thing Rocky I'm a christian and I sin from time to time, if someone pulls out in front of me and I call him a * head and wish he would die a slow death that is sin but I don't believe I have lost my salvation over that. However I likewise believe I could not intentionally plan and execute a bank hold up without being so convicted that I would stop. If I didn't stop I would question how I as able to over come the Jesus and the Holy Spirit enough to throw down my new creation and pick up my old. I don't think I could. However I have no way of finding out because I don't intend to rob a bank. If Jesus is Lord I just don't see how someone goes against that.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense."

Got any Scripture that says it is nonsense as you say above?

Well isn't that what you teach? Don't you teach that if you sin you loose your salvation until you repent and then you gain it back?
So couldn't someone hearing you conclude that they can sin say they are sorry and ask forgiveness and be right again, then repeat the process over and over and over?

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "So couldn't someone hearing you conclude that they can sin say they are sorry and ask forgiveness and be right again, then repeat the process over and over and over?"

I would hope so!

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

OK back to my question of your lack of support for your statement - what I thought - you have NO Scripture to support your claim.

Scripture does not list every nonsense we will run into. So no there is no scripture to refute the teaching that salvation is so cheap we can gain it and lose it at will with little or no consequence. I wouldn't expect scripture to cite the falsehood of such thinking. Scripture says our salvation is precious and is to be cherished. Not tossed around like a nickel.

[bibleman]

It is only double talk to you. To Bibleman he knows exactly what I'm saying. A normative Christian will not willingly sin. However a Christian can for what ever reason decide to break relationship with Christ, at which point he is no longer thinking of sinning but of doing his own thing, getting what is his, exercising his rights. At which point he rejects Christ for once and for all and walks away. Now is that so hard to understand?

A normal Christian will not sin, Jesus Christ is his Lord and he is no longer interested in his rights but interested only in serving the master. However there are evidently times that Christians can decided they no longer want Jesus as Lord of the their lives. Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10_25-27 was written to address just such occasions.

But you have said a real Christian cant and willfully and then you say if he does he cant come back, But you just said a Christian will not willfully sin, Ed that to me is double speaking. So which is it? Go back in look at all of you statements you are saying some really outlandish and absurd things. You are basing a whole theology around these verses and your understanding contradicts other verses. That's what you are not seeing and the rest of us do. So if you are right then the bible is a contradiction. You have some very twisted theology here.

It is only double talk to people that are trying to trip me up.
I don't think I basing my whole theology on "these" verses as you call them. I'm simply saying, the church has invented something that is basically OSAS. Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense.

I'm not suggesting that Christians never sin, I am saying true Christians don't willfully set out to sin, and if someone claiming to be a christian sets out to sin there is something wrong. As a Chrisitian we are to make Jesus Lord of our lives. If Jesus is Lord then where does this willful sin come from? Are you suggesting that Jesus is only part time?
We are also told the Holy Spirit that dwells within us convicts of sin. If we are willfully and deliberately sinning where is the Holy Spirit and what are we doing about His conviction?

Tell me since you claim to have been a Christian and then entered into sin, was Jesus Lord in you life? If so how did you get around Jesus to sin. If you had the Holy Spirit within you screaming conviction at you as you planned your sin how did you over come him. When did you stop making Jesus Lord of your life? What did Jesus say when you did that. Is Jesus in fact Lord of your life now, in practice of just in word only?

Here is the thing Rocky I'm a christian and I sin from time to time, if someone pulls out in front of me and I call him a * head and wish he would die a slow death that is sin but I don't believe I have lost my salvation over that. However I likewise believe I could not intentionally plan and execute a bank hold up without being so convicted that I would stop. If I didn't stop I would question how I as able to over come the Jesus and the Holy Spirit enough to throw down my new creation and pick up my old. I don't think I could. However I have no way of finding out because I don't intend to rob a bank. If Jesus is Lord I just don't see how someone goes against that.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Sure you are not always saved but in effect you are all you have to do is sin and say your sorry and you are saved again. I'm saying that is nonsense. Scripture says it is nonsense."

Got any Scripture that says it is nonsense as you say above?

Well isn't that what you teach? Don't you teach that if you sin you loose your salvation until you repent and then you gain it back?
So couldn't someone hearing you conclude that they can sin say they are sorry and ask forgiveness and be right again, then repeat the process over and over and over?

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "So couldn't someone hearing you conclude that they can sin say they are sorry and ask forgiveness and be right again, then repeat the process over and over and over?"

I would hope so!

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

OK back to my question of your lack of support for your statement - what I thought - you have NO Scripture to support your claim.

Scripture does not list every nonsense we will run into. So no there is no scripture to refute the teaching that salvation is so cheap we can gain it and lose it at will with little or no consequence. I wouldn't expect scripture to cite the falsehood of such thinking. Scripture says our salvation is precious and is to be cherished. Not tossed around like a nickel.

OK No Scripture...

Alright how about your last comment.

Where does the Bible tell us that: "Scripture says our salvation is precious and is to be cherished. Not tossed around like a nickel."

I have NOT read that anywhere in the Bible.