Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Did Peter lose his salvation?

[Justaned]

Pastor,
i think that he did. but he repented and was restored.

They all ran like rabbits.all scattered like sheep.they must have hid away.

but not poor Peter .he followed Him ...at a distance.then the failure

i love Saint Peter the best of all the Apostles.

Saint John was at the Cross with Jesus' mother.

Did Peter lose his salvation when he cursed and denied the Lord Jesus -- yes or no?

Billy
We are talking of an exception rather than a rule. Will anyone deny the disciples were exceptional in their dealings with Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Their reactions to various things they saw and experienced. Was Thomas's name stricken from the book of life when he doubted? Was the rest of their names stricken from the book when they failed to stand by Jesus? Remember only John was present before Christ at the crucifixion. We can make ourselves silly trying to figure out things we don't know.
What we have is a passage that clearly states something many of us don't like. We don't like it first because most of us have been taught by preachers that backslidders lose their salvation. We don't like it because most of us have been taught that OSAS is false doctrine that hands the believer of such doctrine an open ticket to sin. We don't like it because it is black and white and we like things more grey.

Fact scripture says if a Christian willfully and deliberately sins they won't repent because there is no sacrifice left for them to claim to pay for their sins.

[Justaned]

were the disciples all saved as Revered Dake affirms???

IN LUKE 10 JESUS TOLD THE 70 DISCIPLES IN THE LIMITED COMMISSION.......I SAW SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN!!!!glory to God!!!!!HE GAVE THEM POWER OVER THE DEVILS IN HIS NAME.BUT JESUS SAID REJOICE THAT YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN WRITTEN WRITTEN..........IN HEAVEN.

Again it that is a special situation in a special place with special people that God would require much of. What we don't know, was Peter's name ever stricken from that book and had to be rewritten in.

YES, Unless you believe Jesus lied when He said if you deny me I will deny you!

Is that what you believe - that Jesus lied?

Bib il wan Kenobe you are always a trip in the park. No I don't think Jesus lied. But Jesus said only God can look at the heart. What did it see, human frailty, or a desire to deny Jesus? That is why scripture tells us to tend to our own salvation and not worry about anyone else.

[bibleman]

were the disciples all saved as Revered Dake affirms???

IN LUKE 10 JESUS TOLD THE 70 DISCIPLES IN THE LIMITED COMMISSION.......I SAW SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN!!!!glory to God!!!!!HE GAVE THEM POWER OVER THE DEVILS IN HIS NAME.BUT JESUS SAID REJOICE THAT YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN WRITTEN WRITTEN..........IN HEAVEN.

Again it that is a special situation in a special place with special people that God would require much of. What we don't know, was Peter's name ever stricken from that book and had to be rewritten in.

YES, Unless you believe Jesus lied when He said if you deny me I will deny you!

Is that what you believe - that Jesus lied?

Bib il wan Kenobe you are always a trip in the park. No I don't think Jesus lied. But Jesus said only God can look at the heart. What did it see, human frailty, or a desire to deny Jesus? That is why scripture tells us to tend to our own salvation and not worry about anyone else.

Jesus said Peter would deny Him!

Matthew 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Peter did deny Christ!

Matthew 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Jesus said when someone denies Him, He denies them!

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Peter LOST his salvation and needed to be converted AGAIN!

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Now ED, you can either believe the Bible or tear those pages out of your Bible - if those pages even remain!

[Justaned]

were the disciples all saved as Revered Dake affirms???

IN LUKE 10 JESUS TOLD THE 70 DISCIPLES IN THE LIMITED COMMISSION.......I SAW SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN!!!!glory to God!!!!!HE GAVE THEM POWER OVER THE DEVILS IN HIS NAME.BUT JESUS SAID REJOICE THAT YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN WRITTEN WRITTEN..........IN HEAVEN.

Again it that is a special situation in a special place with special people that God would require much of. What we don't know, was Peter's name ever stricken from that book and had to be rewritten in.

YES, Unless you believe Jesus lied when He said if you deny me I will deny you!

Is that what you believe - that Jesus lied?

Bib il wan Kenobe you are always a trip in the park. No I don't think Jesus lied. But Jesus said only God can look at the heart. What did it see, human frailty, or a desire to deny Jesus? That is why scripture tells us to tend to our own salvation and not worry about anyone else.

Jesus said Peter would deny Him!

Matthew 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Peter did deny Christ!

Matthew 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Jesus said when someone denies Him, He denies them!

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Peter LOST his salvation and needed to be converted AGAIN!

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Now ED, you can either believe the Bible or tear those pages out of your Bible - if those pages even remain!

So your point is Peter is normative, that Peters situation both in Christ and out is identical to ours? That Peter would not be an exceptional case in any shape or fashion. That we all walk on water with Jesus. That God immediately erased Peter's name from the book of life only to replace it knowing full well what was going to happen.

This whole discussion does not serve any purpose other tell us you believe Peter was saved and then lost.

I say Peter's spiritual status was an exception and can not be used to define the normative.

[Reuben]

The Bible just doesn't support Ed's idea that Peter was not saved. The Bible states repeatedly otherwise. Why not let the Bible speak for itself.

The following clarifies Peter was saved and no Scripture indicates that he spent ten days in an upper room being saved but rather was waiting on the endument of power from on high for service.
John 6:68-69 (KJV)
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 13:10 (KJV)
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

John 15:3 (KJV)
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

John 17:6 (KJV)
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Notice that Peter's name was written in Heaven at the time of this statement:
Luke 10:20 (KJV)
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

What could be more clearer than the above verse.

John 17:14-16 (KJV)
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Is this clear enough in John 17:14-16? Again, not my opinions, just Scripture speaking for itself.

[Justaned]

The Bible just doesn't support Ed's idea that Peter was not saved. The Bible states repeatedly otherwise. Why not let the Bible speak for itself.

The following clarifies Peter was saved and no Scripture indicates that he spent ten days in an upper room being saved but rather was waiting on the endument of power from on high for service.
John 6:68-69 (KJV)
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 13:10 (KJV)
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

John 15:3 (KJV)
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

John 17:6 (KJV)
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Notice that Peter's name was written in Heaven at the time of this statement:
Luke 10:20 (KJV)
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

What could be more clearer than the above verse.

John 17:14-16 (KJV)
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Is this clear enough in John 17:14-16? Again, not my opinions, just Scripture speaking for itself.

Wait wait wait I never said Peter was not saved or was saved. I said Peter's situation before the cross is totally different than ours after the cross. Let us make it perfectly clear I'm not questioning Peter salvation. I'm questioning whether we can use him as a classic example of the person that was saved after the cross and then willfully and deliberately sinned.

[bibleman]

were the disciples all saved as Revered Dake affirms???

IN LUKE 10 JESUS TOLD THE 70 DISCIPLES IN THE LIMITED COMMISSION.......I SAW SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN!!!!glory to God!!!!!HE GAVE THEM POWER OVER THE DEVILS IN HIS NAME.BUT JESUS SAID REJOICE THAT YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN WRITTEN WRITTEN..........IN HEAVEN.

Again it that is a special situation in a special place with special people that God would require much of. What we don't know, was Peter's name ever stricken from that book and had to be rewritten in.

YES, Unless you believe Jesus lied when He said if you deny me I will deny you!

Is that what you believe - that Jesus lied?

Bib il wan Kenobe you are always a trip in the park. No I don't think Jesus lied. But Jesus said only God can look at the heart. What did it see, human frailty, or a desire to deny Jesus? That is why scripture tells us to tend to our own salvation and not worry about anyone else.

Jesus said Peter would deny Him!

Matthew 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Peter did deny Christ!

Matthew 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Jesus said when someone denies Him, He denies them!

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Peter LOST his salvation and needed to be converted AGAIN!

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Now ED, you can either believe the Bible or tear those pages out of your Bible - if those pages even remain!

So your point is Peter is normative, that Peters situation both in Christ and out is identical to ours? That Peter would not be an exceptional case in any shape or fashion. That we all walk on water with Jesus. That God immediately erased Peter's name from the book of life only to replace it knowing full well what was going to happen.

This whole discussion does not serve any purpose other tell us you believe Peter was saved and then lost.

I say Peter's spiritual status was an exception and can not be used to define the normative.

Hi Ed,

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

You of course KNOW the state of their salvation NOT by reading the mind of God... but by seeing their fruit.

[Justaned]

were the disciples all saved as Revered Dake affirms???

IN LUKE 10 JESUS TOLD THE 70 DISCIPLES IN THE LIMITED COMMISSION.......I SAW SATAN AS LIGHTNING FALL FROM HEAVEN!!!!glory to God!!!!!HE GAVE THEM POWER OVER THE DEVILS IN HIS NAME.BUT JESUS SAID REJOICE THAT YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN WRITTEN WRITTEN..........IN HEAVEN.

Again it that is a special situation in a special place with special people that God would require much of. What we don't know, was Peter's name ever stricken from that book and had to be rewritten in.

YES, Unless you believe Jesus lied when He said if you deny me I will deny you!

Is that what you believe - that Jesus lied?

Bib il wan Kenobe you are always a trip in the park. No I don't think Jesus lied. But Jesus said only God can look at the heart. What did it see, human frailty, or a desire to deny Jesus? That is why scripture tells us to tend to our own salvation and not worry about anyone else.

Jesus said Peter would deny Him!

Matthew 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Peter did deny Christ!

Matthew 26:69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.
73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

Jesus said when someone denies Him, He denies them!

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Peter LOST his salvation and needed to be converted AGAIN!

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Now ED, you can either believe the Bible or tear those pages out of your Bible - if those pages even remain!

So your point is Peter is normative, that Peters situation both in Christ and out is identical to ours? That Peter would not be an exceptional case in any shape or fashion. That we all walk on water with Jesus. That God immediately erased Peter's name from the book of life only to replace it knowing full well what was going to happen.

This whole discussion does not serve any purpose other tell us you believe Peter was saved and then lost.

I say Peter's spiritual status was an exception and can not be used to define the normative.

Hi Ed,

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

You of course KNOW the state of their salvation NOT by reading the mind of God... but by seeing their fruit.

And there was never an actor that could duplicate those fruits at least enough to fool us?

[Justaned]

STOP!
Before this goes any further let me say if I said Peter was saved or wasn't saved without making it clear that I was talking about salvation as we know it, that is after the cross I misspoke.

What I meant to say was Peters spiritual state whatever it was, was unique to the Peter and the situation. It is not the normative it was not based at the time on sacrifice that was not yet made.

Hebrew 10 very clearly states the is no repentance since there no longer remains a sacrifice. That is pivotal to this discussion. At the time of Peters denial the sacrifice had not yet been completed nor was he depending on it for his salvation.

[Reuben]

The Bible just doesn't support Ed's idea that Peter was not saved. The Bible states repeatedly otherwise. Why not let the Bible speak for itself.

The following clarifies Peter was saved and no Scripture indicates that he spent ten days in an upper room being saved but rather was waiting on the endument of power from on high for service.
John 6:68-69 (KJV)
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 13:10 (KJV)
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

John 15:3 (KJV)
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

John 17:6 (KJV)
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Notice that Peter's name was written in Heaven at the time of this statement:
Luke 10:20 (KJV)
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

What could be more clearer than the above verse.

John 17:14-16 (KJV)
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Is this clear enough in John 17:14-16? Again, not my opinions, just Scripture speaking for itself.

Wait wait wait I never said Peter was not saved or was saved. I said Peter's situation before the cross is totally different than ours after the cross. Let us make it perfectly clear I'm not questioning Peter salvation. I'm questioning whether we can use him as a classic example of the person that was saved after the cross and then willfully and deliberately sinned.

His name was written in Heaven - Jesus said so. The ONLY way your name is written there is because you are saved. And, if it was written there, then why did he have to be saved again at Pentecost?