Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Need Scriptual Help, Please...

[Watchman2013]

Good Morning, Blessed of Our Most High God and Father; Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ; and Our Precious Holy Spirit, Who Abides within, and upon, us...

I've found myself in a bit of a conundrum. Two Mormon's stopped by last night, wondering about my status, vis-a-vis Salvation, and in my case, in Christ Jesus. I assured them that I was/am saved, and why. Then, the conversation became "interesting..."

After many minutes of shredding their doctrines, and those of Man and Religion, they decided to pull out their "heavy guns..."

"Justifying" their practice of baptizing the dead, they posited, "What about all those who died, never hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ?"

"What about those that died before The Flood, and after Jesus rose to Heaven? Is not Paradise full of those who have not heard the Gospel of Christ?"

"How can a "just" God condemn those that have never heard the Name of Jesus, nor heard the Gospel He Preached?"

I know that God is just, "fair," is the meaning and definition of Love, Mercy, Grace, Holiness, and oh, so much more... How do I, Scriptually, reach them? Book, chapter, and verse?

I can only state what I believe, based upon the Inerrant, Perfect, Holy Word of God. To me, EVERYTHING is based upon God's Word, therefore, His Word is the ONLY and final answer.

Yes, "the secret things of God, are God's." Yes, this is very most likely well above my pay grade- certainly beyond my present knowledge...

I never sought to be a missionary to the Mormons. I still don't desire that job, for I feel ill equipped to joust with them, though I do have The Word of God, and of course, The Precious Holy Spirit...

I'm not seeing the right places in The Word, or I'm not asking the right questions. I'm lacking, not God, or His Word...

Relying upon your wisdom, experience, and knowledge, I am asking for Scriptural advice on how to respond, to shoot their treads off, and convict them of their woeful state. They are well versed in their false doctrine, and yes, God has shown me some holes to break their armor, but I'm missing something, and it's my lack, never God's...

So, please prayerfully respond to my plight.

Thank-You...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[bibleman]

Good Morning, Blessed of Our Most High God and Father; Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ; and Our Precious Holy Spirit, Who Abides within, and upon, us...

I've found myself in a bit of a conundrum. Two Mormon's stopped by last night, wondering about my status, vis-a-vis Salvation, and in my case, in Christ Jesus. I assured them that I was/am saved, and why. Then, the conversation became "interesting..."

After many minutes of shredding their doctrines, and those of Man and Religion, they decided to pull out their "heavy guns..."

"Justifying" their practice of baptizing the dead, they posited, "What about all those who died, never hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ?"

"What about those that died before The Flood, and after Jesus rose to Heaven? Is not Paradise full of those who have not heard the Gospel of Christ?"

"How can a "just" God condemn those that have never heard the Name of Jesus, nor heard the Gospel He Preached?"

I know that God is just, "fair," is the meaning and definition of Love, Mercy, Grace, Holiness, and oh, so much more... How do I, Scriptually, reach them? Book, chapter, and verse?

I can only state what I believe, based upon the Inerrant, Perfect, Holy Word of God. To me, EVERYTHING is based upon God's Word, therefore, His Word is the ONLY and final answer.

Yes, "the secret things of God, are God's." Yes, this is very most likely well above my pay grade- certainly beyond my present knowledge...

I never sought to be a missionary to the Mormons. I still don't desire that job, for I feel ill equipped to joust with them, though I do have The Word of God, and of course, The Precious Holy Spirit...

I'm not seeing the right places in The Word, or I'm not asking the right questions. I'm lacking, not God, or His Word...

Relying upon your wisdom, experience, and knowledge, I am asking for Scriptural advice on how to respond, to shoot their treads off, and convict them of their woeful state. They are well versed in their false doctrine, and yes, God has shown me some holes to break their armor, but I'm missing something, and it's my lack, never God's...

So, please prayerfully respond to my plight.

Thank-You...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

[Justaned]

Aside from the Romans passage we do not know the answer to that question.
Many people including the Mormons have tried to formulate an answer but scripture is silent on the matter.

People often use this to take our eyes off what we do know. I know atheist love to bring this up also because they know there isn't an answer.

However God has declared Himself to be Just, Loving, Faithful, Truthful and Good. We have to trust in that, insure our salvation is secure and let those matters up to God.

My answer to Mormons on this question is Scripture does not tell us what happens to those people so no body knows. Yes I know you leader Joseph Smith claims to have that info but he didn't. Moreover he was proven over and over to have been a liar. Now if you want to discuss your religion let us discuss things we can answer because they are in the scriptures.

[titus213]

Dake points out in his notes on Romans 2 (don't have a DARB with me so cannot give the specific note) that Paul is not saying people can be saved by keeping the law . . . in fact, no one does keep the whole law, as Paul concludes later in chapter 3. They must be born again in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

And it is precisely because a person must be born again that there is hope for those who have never been reached with the Gospel by any known human means . . . when Jesus talks to Nicodemus about being born again, he explains that the Spirit's work in the new birth is like the wind, in that the wind (or the Spirit, since the Greek word is used for both) blows wherever it (or he) wishes; we don't control the new birth, and we cannot limit this blowing of the Spirit. Since Jesus said that when the Spirit came, he will convict THE WORLD about sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16.8ff) I assume the Spirit has ways of communicating the reality of Jesus to people that we know nothing of, and have no part in.

It was the Spirit who had previously been working in the lives of a Roman centurion (Cornelius) and an Ethiopian court official, prior to their conversion. It was the Spirit who had apparently been at work in the ancient city of Nineveh, preparing the way for Jonah's preaching. He blows where he chooses. And wherever he does blow, he reveals the truth about Jesus, because that is what he does. So that, as Jesus said, those who are finally condemned are condemned "because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God" (John 3.18).

[macca]

The perfect answer Leon.
People must realise that we have to belong to God's family not Adam's to make it to heaven.
Many are called but few are chosen and Paul's gospel is What God has given to the world by which they can be saved.
If God draws them to Him while they hear the gospel, otherwise there is no salvation ........
Its up to us to share our experience of salvation wherever and whenever posible and it must aline with Paul's gospel no one else's.

[titus213]

Mormons do believe that all will have a chance to hear about and accept or reject Mormonism even after death (this is also tied in with their practice of baptism for the dead). But the Bible does make it clear that after death there are no second chances for anyone, in places like Hebrews 9.27.

[branham1965]

Whom do men say that i am??? Our Lord asked His Disciples.

Their teaching about Jesus Christ is absolutely false.
CH 21 the Truth about Jesus Christ in GPFM.Reverend Dake proves from the Bible who Jesus is.threy have another Jesus Gal1:8-9.

The Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin and Ravi Zacharias has a section obout the Mormons.

[branham1965]

The God Makers by Dave Hunt is an expose of their false doctrines.

i saw them at amazon now for 2 dollars used.

[Watchman2013]

Please forgive me for not responding sooner. I must plead physical inability to the the lack of my staying power, vis-a-vis, being at the keyboard, today. Humidity is my enemy, and lately, my resistance to the high heat, combined with humidity, has been taking it's toll. Thankfully, Our God is awesome, for His Grace is sufficient for me...

Yes, my Brothers in Christ, I am well aware that the Mormon's operate from false premises. Their doctrines are anathema to God, and a stench in my/our nostrils. Be that as it may, I must find ways to reach them, that they may see beyond the falsity of their positions. Living here in what I call, "Mormon Land," SW Utah, I am struck by the hopelessness that they accept as their lot. Intellectually strong, they lack the fundamentals of Bible knowledge, strengthened and guided by The Precious Holy Spirit. It's as if they rely upon the "bullet points" of their beliefs, relying upon non-Scriptural verification, depending upon their earnestness, and their "command" of their beliefs- which are not based upon The Word of God. If they were to become snake oil salesmen, or attempted to bamboozle the unknowing, they would, no doubt, be successful. However, they are stymied by The Word of God, and by the leading of The Precious Holy Spirit, in leading willing Christians, who stand in the gap...

Titus 2:13 and Justaned, so far, have provided the best weapons to wield in this spiritual knife fight. Knife fight? Yes, my Brothers in Christ, for it is too easy to use a spiritual WMD to crush them- but I seek to win them to Christ, for it is not God's will, that any should perish... Would it not be better to bring two respected, influential members of the Mormon community, into the Kingdom of God, to testify of His Love, in the form of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ? There are so many Mormons, and so little time... I've heard, recently, that there are more Christians, than Mormons in Salt Lake City... I pray that that is true... Such vileness needs to be dispelled by the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, that such a region be brought out of death and darkness, and into the light and life eternal of Christ Jesus...

Please search your hearts, that I may reach them... You have much experience, much wisdom, and much compassion to share with others...

Thank-You, and may Our God and Father, Our Lord and Savior, and The Precious Holy Spirit strengthen you, and give you peace...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[Ironman]

Good Morning, Blessed of Our Most High God and Father; Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ; and Our Precious Holy Spirit, Who Abides within, and upon, us...

I've found myself in a bit of a conundrum. Two Mormon's stopped by last night, wondering about my status, vis-a-vis Salvation, and in my case, in Christ Jesus. I assured them that I was/am saved, and why. Then, the conversation became "interesting..."

After many minutes of shredding their doctrines, and those of Man and Religion, they decided to pull out their "heavy guns..."

"Justifying" their practice of baptizing the dead, they posited, "What about all those who died, never hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ?"

"What about those that died before The Flood, and after Jesus rose to Heaven? Is not Paradise full of those who have not heard the Gospel of Christ?"

"How can a "just" God condemn those that have never heard the Name of Jesus, nor heard the Gospel He Preached?"

I know that God is just, "fair," is the meaning and definition of Love, Mercy, Grace, Holiness, and oh, so much more... How do I, Scriptually, reach them? Book, chapter, and verse?

I can only state what I believe, based upon the Inerrant, Perfect, Holy Word of God. To me, EVERYTHING is based upon God's Word, therefore, His Word is the ONLY and final answer.

Yes, "the secret things of God, are God's." Yes, this is very most likely well above my pay grade- certainly beyond my present knowledge...

I never sought to be a missionary to the Mormons. I still don't desire that job, for I feel ill equipped to joust with them, though I do have The Word of God, and of course, The Precious Holy Spirit...

I'm not seeing the right places in The Word, or I'm not asking the right questions. I'm lacking, not God, or His Word...

Relying upon your wisdom, experience, and knowledge, I am asking for Scriptural advice on how to respond, to shoot their treads off, and convict them of their woeful state. They are well versed in their false doctrine, and yes, God has shown me some holes to break their armor, but I'm missing something, and it's my lack, never God's...

So, please prayerfully respond to my plight.

Thank-You...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

Like Bibleman said, God will do right even by those who have never ever even heard of Him! or any other name associated with and to God. God has revealed His method of dealing with these people even those who have never heard the gospel.

Paul stated in Romans 2:12-16 that God will do right by every man according to the light he has recieved. He said, "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets fo men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."