Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Power of Prayer and Confession

[Justaned]

Yes, I agree that faith is not meant to be an independent substance like the Force in the Star Wars films. It is faith IN GOD and the faith OF GOD.

But because it is faith in God and the faith of God, it surely does have power and is a force the individual believer has and ought to make use of, with tangible results. That's part of the point Jesus made in Mark 11, or Peter made in Acts 3, or the author of Hebrews does in Heb 11.

When you say faith has power you mean what you have faith in has the actual power. Faith along has no power, but if I have placed my faith in God then I am relying on God's power and might and nothing else. Correct?

For it seems to me if I rely on anything else like faith itself then I end up being double minded not be able to determine who or what is going to accomplish what I have faith in. Is it my faith or is it God. Both have to be present but it is God that ultimately accomplishes or completes it.

[titus213]

I think it's both / and.

The faith which God gives (the faith OF God) is a powerful faith. Yes, it comes because we have faith in Him, but it has power as a result. In Acts 3, Peter links all these ideas: it was the Name of Jesus itself that did it; then again, to be more clear, it was because of faith in Jesus' Name that God did it; then again, it was the faith that comes through Jesus that did it. Take out any one of those things (Jesus, His Name, God, faith) and it would not have happened.

So if I were to have a conversation with the healed man later that day, it might have gone like this:

Hey, Leapy, did your faith heal you? -- Yup
Did Jesus heal you? -- Yup
Did God heal you? -- Yup
or did Peter and John heal you? -- yup

I don't think we can separate the "actual power" from the faith which believes in God and is given by Him. They belong together.

You're right that biblical faith is not faith in faith itself, if by that you mean faith by itself. But biblical faith is not faith by itself; it is faith in God and, being God's gift, is the faith of God. Just as the lame man would not have been healed merely by having faith that healing was possible, nor even faith that Peter and John could do amazing things; he needed to have faith in the Name of Jesus, and that faith came to him through Jesus. But, as Peter could say, it was not only Jesus who healed him, but the faith Jesus gave him. After all, Jesus can heal a person who is in a coma or for some other reason cannot exercise faith. But for this lame man it wasn't Jesus only, it was also the man's faith.

Along the same line, we see the two sides of the coin in the comments James makes about the healing of those who are sick. On the one hand, it is the prayer of faith which will save the sick; on the other hand, it's the Lord who raises the person up. Is the power in the Lord, or is it in the prayer of faith? It's really a false dichotomy, because the Bible says both. Take away either one, and you have a sick man still staring at you. They go together.

[Justaned]

I think it's both / and.

The faith which God gives (the faith OF God) is a powerful faith. Yes, it comes because we have faith in Him, but it has power as a result. In Acts 3, Peter links all these ideas: it was the Name of Jesus itself that did it; then again, to be more clear, it was because of faith in Jesus' Name that God did it; then again, it was the faith that comes through Jesus that did it. Take out any one of those things (Jesus, His Name, God, faith) and it would not have happened.

So if I were to have a conversation with the healed man later that day, it might have gone like this:

Hey, Leapy, did your faith heal you? -- Yup
Did Jesus heal you? -- Yup
Did God heal you? -- Yup
or did Peter and John heal you? -- yup

I don't think we can separate the "actual power" from the faith which believes in God and is given by Him. They belong together.

You're right that biblical faith is not faith in faith itself, if by that you mean faith by itself. But biblical faith is not faith by itself; it is faith in God and, being God's gift, is the faith of God. Just as the lame man would not have been healed merely by having faith that healing was possible, nor even faith that Peter and John could do amazing things; he needed to have faith in the Name of Jesus, and that faith came to him through Jesus. But, as Peter could say, it was not only Jesus who healed him, but the faith Jesus gave him. After all, Jesus can heal a person who is in a coma or for some other reason cannot exercise faith. But for this lame man it wasn't Jesus only, it was also the man's faith.

Along the same line, we see the two sides of the coin in the comments James makes about the healing of those who are sick. On the one hand, it is the prayer of faith which will save the sick; on the other hand, it's the Lord who raises the person up. Is the power in the Lord, or is it in the prayer of faith? It's really a false dichotomy, because the Bible says both. Take away either one, and you have a sick man still staring at you. They go together.

I think what all of this shows is that it is faith in God not in power of faith nor in faith that heals. It is God that heals and while faith is required it becomes can we say the connection to God? Faith has no power in and of itself.