Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ A terrible instance of God NOT being in control!

[titus213]

A "god" who has secret purposes no one knows which bring about such things is indistinguishable from the devil. It is one thing to say God can teach lessons from tragedy; it's quite another to accuse him of sending death and destruction in order to teach those lessons. He has no purpose in such things. He does not have to sacrifice anyone else to bring about salvation or some other good for another. He has sacrificed his Son once and for all.

[victoryword]

Amen fatherfisher. The BIble itself holds only TWO people responsible for death coming into the world, Satan who is the author of death and held the power of it and Adam who authorized it into the world that he was given authority over when he disobeyed God.

God neither planned for, wanted, or desired for death to come into the world and never had a purpose for it. Now, being an OMNI-RESOURCEFUL God, He is able to redeem any situation. He is able to teach us life lessons from tragic events. When my son at the age of five touched the oven while we were baking after we told him to stay away from it learned a painful lesson. I certainly did not want him to learn not touch hot stoves THAT WAY, but he did not listen and chose to touch it. After that incident, he never did it again.

Same with God and His ability to teach us from life's issues. However, just because He is able to draw lessons from them to teach us it does not mean that He planned for the tragedy or wanted it. The God I serve is not a dispenser of tragedy. He is a deliverer from tragedy.

[Justaned]

Amen fatherfisher. The BIble itself holds only TWO people responsible for death coming into the world, Satan who is the author of death and held the power of it and Adam who authorized it into the world that he was given authority over when he disobeyed God.

God neither planned for, wanted, or desired for death to come into the world and never had a purpose for it. Now, being an OMNI-RESOURCEFUL God, He is able to redeem any situation. He is able to teach us life lessons from tragic events. When my son at the age of five touched the oven while we were baking after we told him to stay away from it learned a painful lesson. I certainly did not want him to learn not touch hot stoves THAT WAY, but he did not listen and chose to touch it. After that incident, he never did it again.

Same with God and His ability to teach us from life's issues. However, just because He is able to draw lessons from them to teach us it does not mean that He planned for the tragedy or wanted it. The God I serve is not a dispenser of tragedy. He is a deliverer from tragedy.

Who presently is holding the keys of Death and Hell?

[Justaned]

A "god" who has secret purposes no one knows which bring about such things is indistinguishable from the devil. It is one thing to say God can teach lessons from tragedy; it's quite another to accuse him of sending death and destruction in order to teach those lessons. He has no purpose in such things. He does not have to sacrifice anyone else to bring about salvation or some other good for another. He has sacrificed his Son once and for all.

No one as of yet accused God of sending death and destruction. You are the only one to even suggest such a thing.

God has many secrets that no one but God knows so why does that make him like the devil?
Did anyone say anything about sacrifice? No, you are the first to mention it.

Interesting conclusions that don't speak highly of trust in God.

[victoryword]

Who presently is holding the keys of Death and Hell?

The same person who said the following:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live (Deut. 30:19)

Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. (Prov. 18:21)

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Eze. 33:11)

[Justaned]

Who presently is holding the keys of Death and Hell?

The same person who said the following:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live (Deut. 30:19)

Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. (Prov. 18:21)

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Eze. 33:11)

What life and death are being addressed here? Physical or Spiritual?

[victoryword]

Who presently is holding the keys of Death and Hell?

The same person who said the following:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live (Deut. 30:19)

Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. (Prov. 18:21)

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Eze. 33:11)

What life and death are being addressed here? Physical or Spiritual?

Why should it matter. Only westerners want to focus on always seperating the "spiritual" from the "physical" as if one has no impact on the other. However, I will answer your question with a question:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen. 2:17)

Now, you tell me, what death is being addressed here? Physical or Spiritual?

[Justaned]

Who presently is holding the keys of Death and Hell?

The same person who said the following:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live (Deut. 30:19)

Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. (Prov. 18:21)

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Eze. 33:11)

What life and death are being addressed here? Physical or Spiritual?

Why should it matter. Only westerners want to focus on always seperating the "spiritual" from the "physical" as if one has no impact on the other. However, I will answer your question with a question:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen. 2:17)

Now, you tell me, what death is being addressed here? Physical or Spiritual?

You didn't answer that question you posed a question.

And perhaps us "westeners" have a better understanding of spiritual and physical being so we do separate the two. Physical beings are temporal Spiritual beings are eternal. HUGE difference.

Physical death is matter of fact everyone will died unless the Lord returns first. Spiritual death is a matter of choice. We live or we die spiritually by what we choose to make Lord of our life. We can choose to satisfy our flesh and fulfill the lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and pride of Life or we choose to make God Lord of our lives and to serve God not the other way around.

[the_truth]

Amen fatherfisher. The BIble itself holds only TWO people responsible for death coming into the world, Satan who is the author of death and held the power of it and Adam who authorized it into the world that he was given authority over when he disobeyed God..

One must know the difference between DEATH and acts which lead to death. It is an error to say that Satan is the Author of Death. Satan did not CREATE death. DEATH according to the Scripture is a "judgement" that GOD created in HIS Word for acts of sin and disobedience. Rom 6:23. Murder, disease, sickness, accidents, etc are the MEANS by which Death can be realized. Now, SATAN has authority to murder, cause sickness, etc. Some of these acts may lead to DEATH some may not. GOD has granted authority to SATAN because he is said to be THE PRINCE, not KING of this world. Heb 2:14 For in the Book of JOB it clearly shows what SATAN can do. SATAN was the author of JOB's sickness. But it was NOT UNTO death because GOD forbid him to exercise that power on JOB.

Not only does SATAN has authority BUT GOD ALMIGHTY proves HE has authority too. In Is 45:7, HE said, I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do all these things. So clearly THE CREATOR of ALL things HAD THE POWER from the get go. In the OT, HE exercised the JUDGEMENT of DEATH on many who did not OBEY HIM.

GOD is the CREATOR of that judgment and HE also is the one and only that has authority of that judgment. And the Bible proves this. Rev 2:23. The ONE that said "I AM THE FIRST and LAST" said, "And I will kill her children with DEATH". The Scripture show that GOD gave authority to the one that sat on the ashen Horse(4th Seal). And the one that sat on that horse had the name "death". But the IMPORTANT point is this: And AUTHORITY was GIVEN TO THEM.....

Now Scripture proves that after JESUS rose, HE said " I have the KEYS of HELL and DEATH". This proves beyond a doubt that in THIS DAY, the DEVIL does not HAVE THE KEY of neither for ALL POWER and AUTHORITY now rest with CHRIST. So indeed CHRIST is in CONTROL of ALL THINGS.

In addition, TWO are NOT responsible for DEATH coming into the world. The Scripture didn't say TWO MEN, but ONE MAN. Rom 5:12- Wherefore, as by ONE MAN.......

Most of you do not believe that GOD is in control, therefore you end up giving SATAN more control than he has.

[titus213]

Jesus and his disciples show us how to view the role of Satan in the world. He is the ruler of it, he is the god of it, and the whole world apart from those born again lie in his power. That is what Jesus, Paul and John have to say. Paul was not trying to hype this reality when he wrote that the believer has been delivered from the power and control of darkness into a totally different kingdom (Col 1). The kingdoms of this world are still under Satan (Rev 11:15)