Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Literal or not?

[macca]

Oh dear, i think Ed must be a thorn in the flesh to the WOF.

MACCA

[Ironman]

"In Gal. 4: 13-15 the Apostle referred to a physical ailment evidently connected with his eyes."

In Dakes notes page 358, Gal. 4, v 15, Dake Bible, It reads, q. This is an expression of great affection, like saying, "I would give my right arm for you or lay down my life for you. It does not indicate Paul had an eye disease.

[branham1965]

DO you think he REALLY could have taken on these murderous beasts in combat!!!???? HOW ABOUT some hungry lions????
ALL THE APOSTLES WERE BRUTALLY KILLED...SAVE JOHN.

I tend to believe Paul was speaking of a literal fight with beasts in the arena.

The language he uses makes the statement true, "in the manner of men" Hos autos and "fight with beasts " Theromacheo is used only here.

Just because its not listed elsewhere is no proof that it is not fact. How could they list everything that befell Paul in his work for the Lord?

Being a roman citizen did not stop Nero chopping Paul's head off, so whats so strange about Paul forced into the arena while Nero was ruling ?

MACCA

[branham1965]

that is fascinating.thanks.

I think there've been something like 30+ viewpoints as to what Paul's "thorn" actually was. . . here are what most of them boil down to:

Pain in the ear or head (Tertullian)
People who were pains like Hymenaeus and Alexander (Chrysostom)
epilepsy (M. Krenkel, J. Klausner)
eye problems (J. T. Brain)
convulsions (M. Dibelius),
sufferings caused by constant persecutions (J. Murick)
attacks of depression (H. Clavier)
the agony caused by the unbelief of his Jewish brethren
malaria (W. M. Ramsay, E. B. Allo)
the memory of the people he had executed when he persecuted the church (A. Osiander, A Schlatter).

The typical line of reasoning for it being eye problems goes like this:

We know that Paul suffered severe physical trials, II Corinthians 11

In Gal. 4: 13-15 the Apostle referred to a physical ailment evidently connected with his eyes

After his vision of the glory of the risen Savior at his conversion, which he described as "above the brightness of the sun"(Acts 26: 13), and which rendered him blind for three days (Acts 9: 9), his eyes may have been left permanently weak.

Satan could have aggravated this condition, for the Word of God reveals that with the Lord's permission, he can affect the body.

[macca]

DO you think he REALLY could have taken on these murderous beasts in combat!!!???? HOW ABOUT some hungry lions????
ALL THE APOSTLES WERE BRUTALLY KILLED...SAVE JOHN.

I tend to believe Paul was speaking of a literal fight with beasts in the arena.

The language he uses makes the statement true, "in the manner of men" Hos autos and "fight with beasts " Theromacheo is used only here.

Just because its not listed elsewhere is no proof that it is not fact. How could they list everything that befell Paul in his work for the Lord?

Being a roman citizen did not stop Nero chopping Paul's head off, so whats so strange about Paul forced into the arena while Nero was ruling ?

MACCA

1 COR. 15:31-32;
Every day I face death, as surely as I take pride in you, brothers, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
From a human standpoint, what good is my fighting against beasts in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised,

I have no problem believing Paul had and could fight and win against wild beasts in the arena, many did and survived so why not Paul.

He was not a weak and puny sick man, he was a mighty man of God who worked with his own hands for a living and could handle any situation with the
gifts of the Spirit and his close relationship with Jesus.

I am feed up to the back teeth with this faithless pack of wolves that attack Paul and all that would follow him as he followed Jesus.

macca

[Ironman]

DO you think he REALLY could have taken on these murderous beasts in combat!!!???? HOW ABOUT some hungry lions????
ALL THE APOSTLES WERE BRUTALLY KILLED...SAVE JOHN.

I tend to believe Paul was speaking of a literal fight with beasts in the arena.

The language he uses makes the statement true, "in the manner of men" Hos autos and "fight with beasts " Theromacheo is used only here.

Just because its not listed elsewhere is no proof that it is not fact. How could they list everything that befell Paul in his work for the Lord?

Being a roman citizen did not stop Nero chopping Paul's head off, so whats so strange about Paul forced into the arena while Nero was ruling ?

MACCA

1 COR. 15:31-32;
Every day I face death, as surely as I take pride in you, brothers, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
From a human standpoint, what good is my fighting against beasts in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised,

I have no problem believing Paul had and could fight and win against wild beasts in the arena, many did and survived so why not Paul.

He was not a weak and puny sick man, he was a mighty man of God who worked with his own hands for a living and could handle any situation with the
gifts of the Spirit and his close relationship with Jesus.

I am feed up to the back teeth with this faithless pack of wolves that attack Paul and all that would follow him as he followed Jesus.

macca

Macca, this is the only thorn in the flesh Paul had as far as I know???? "the messenger of Satan."

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."(2 Cor. 12:7).

[macca]

Spot on Haz. it was from satan not God and God gave Paul all he needed to defend himself from it.

macca

[Justaned]

You know Macca I was reading in the 5th chapter of the Hezekiah verse 20-29 and it talks about Paul the Lion fighter.

Apparently he was well known and in such demand that he traveled the middle east three different times before his fame became so great that Nero demanded his appearance in Rome.

Unfortunately for Paul he lost a few matches that Nero has bet big on him and Nero in a rage had Paul beheaded.

Little is mentioned about Paul's lion fighting prowess other than this brief mention in Hezekiah.

[branham1965]

macca
think of all those Christians killed by Rome.but Paul is now a wild beast and lion killer!!!!!
perhaps 1 Peter 5:8 means we fight actual roaring lions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or actual giant red dragons in Revelation.
+pieface

DO you think he REALLY could have taken on these murderous beasts in combat!!!???? HOW ABOUT some hungry lions????
ALL THE APOSTLES WERE BRUTALLY KILLED...SAVE JOHN.

I tend to believe Paul was speaking of a literal fight with beasts in the arena.

The language he uses makes the statement true, "in the manner of men" Hos autos and "fight with beasts " Theromacheo is used only here.

Just because its not listed elsewhere is no proof that it is not fact. How could they list everything that befell Paul in his work for the Lord?

Being a roman citizen did not stop Nero chopping Paul's head off, so whats so strange about Paul forced into the arena while Nero was ruling ?

MACCA

1 COR. 15:31-32;
Every day I face death, as surely as I take pride in you, brothers, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
From a human standpoint, what good is my fighting against beasts in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised,

I have no problem believing Paul had and could fight and win against wild beasts in the arena, many did and survived so why not Paul.

He was not a weak and puny sick man, he was a mighty man of God who worked with his own hands for a living and could handle any situation with the
gifts of the Spirit and his close relationship with Jesus.

I am feed up to the back teeth with this faithless pack of wolves that attack Paul and all that would follow him as he followed Jesus.

macca

[branham1965]

WHEN STONED HE WAS IMPERVIOUS TO THE STONING.WHEN BEATEN WITH RODS HE RECEIVED NO INJURY.WHEN BEATEN BY THE WHIP HE WAS NOT CUT OR INJURED.WHEN SHIPWRECKED HE WAS IN HIS OWN BOAT.
PAUL WAS A 1RST CENTURY SUPERMAN.BEATING WILD BEASTS WITH HIS BARE HANDS AND TEARING LIONS TO PIECES.
+pieface

DO you think he REALLY could have taken on these murderous beasts in combat!!!???? HOW ABOUT some hungry lions????
ALL THE APOSTLES WERE BRUTALLY KILLED...SAVE JOHN.

I tend to believe Paul was speaking of a literal fight with beasts in the arena.

The language he uses makes the statement true, "in the manner of men" Hos autos and "fight with beasts " Theromacheo is used only here.

Just because its not listed elsewhere is no proof that it is not fact. How could they list everything that befell Paul in his work for the Lord?

Being a roman citizen did not stop Nero chopping Paul's head off, so whats so strange about Paul forced into the arena while Nero was ruling ?

MACCA

1 COR. 15:31-32;
Every day I face death, as surely as I take pride in you, brothers, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
From a human standpoint, what good is my fighting against beasts in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised,

I have no problem believing Paul had and could fight and win against wild beasts in the arena, many did and survived so why not Paul.

He was not a weak and puny sick man, he was a mighty man of God who worked with his own hands for a living and could handle any situation with the
gifts of the Spirit and his close relationship with Jesus.

I am feed up to the back teeth with this faithless pack of wolves that attack Paul and all that would follow him as he followed Jesus.

macca