Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Do you have a responsive God!

[bibleman]

Hi Justaned,

In another post on this board you said: "Moses clearly teaches divorce was never intended to occur by God but that God grudgingly allowed it. However God clearly declares he despises divorce. Jesus then laid down the law and said the only valid reason for divorce is for adultery. Now people can justify it any way they want but the facts say divorce is not God highest and best and the only valid reason is adultery."

OK, I really don't understand because so many times on this board you have said again and again that God knows all and NEVER adjust His plans to accommodate man in that He is never surprised by what man does.

So looking at your statement you say...

1. "Moses clearly teaches divorce was never intended to occur by God
2. "God grudgingly allowed it.
3. "However God clearly declares he despises divorce."
4. "Jesus then laid down the law and said the only valid reason for divorce is for adultery."
5. "the facts say divorce is not God highest and best "

Here are the problems with your statement.

1. "Moses clearly teaches divorce was never intended to occur by God If divorce was never intended to occur by God and was not His will... then of course people do things that are NOT the will of God... Correct?

2. "God grudgingly allowed it. In other words you say that God didn't want to... but did it anyway, allow divorce that is. So are you saying that God changed His plan for man, knowing it was not the best thing to do?

3. "However God clearly declares he despises divorce." If God despises divorce then why does he allow man to do it?

4. "Jesus then laid down the law and said the only valid reason for divorce is for adultery." So Jesus' law on divorce is different that God the Father's law on divorce. How can this be since Jesus always did the will of the Father?

5. "the facts say divorce is not God highest and best the only valid reason is adultery." So clearly then God has CHANGED His plan to make allowance for man's sin... Correct?

Ed, it seems to me that your understanding of divorce is greatly different that your understanding of God. Where divorce is concerned you have a God that changes and adjusted His plan to man's decisions.

You have a responsive God!

[Justaned]

Hi Justaned,

In another post on this board you said: "Moses clearly teaches divorce was never intended to occur by God but that God grudgingly allowed it. However God clearly declares he despises divorce. Jesus then laid down the law and said the only valid reason for divorce is for adultery. Now people can justify it any way they want but the facts say divorce is not God highest and best and the only valid reason is adultery."

OK, I really don't understand because so many times on this board you have said again and again that God knows all and NEVER adjust His plans to accommodate man in that He is never surprised by what man does.

So looking at your statement you say...

1. "Moses clearly teaches divorce was never intended to occur by God
2. "God grudgingly allowed it.
3. "However God clearly declares he despises divorce."
4. "Jesus then laid down the law and said the only valid reason for divorce is for adultery."
5. "the facts say divorce is not God highest and best "

Here are the problems with your statement.

1. "Moses clearly teaches divorce was never intended to occur by God If divorce was never intended to occur by God and was not His will... then of course people do things that are NOT the will of God... Correct?

2. "God grudgingly allowed it. In other words you say that God didn't want to... but did it anyway, allow divorce that is. So are you saying that God changed His plan for man, knowing it was not the best thing to do?

3. "However God clearly declares he despises divorce." If God despises divorce then why does he allow man to do it?

4. "Jesus then laid down the law and said the only valid reason for divorce is for adultery." So Jesus' law on divorce is different that God the Father's law on divorce. How can this be since Jesus always did the will of the Father?

5. "the facts say divorce is not God highest and best the only valid reason is adultery." So clearly then God has CHANGED His plan to make allowance for man's sin... Correct?

Ed, it seems to me that your understanding of divorce is greatly different that your understanding of God. Where divorce is concerned you have a God that changes and adjusted His plan to man's decisions.

You have a responsive God!

Bibleman
Point one yes you are correct.
Point two no God didn't change anything God just didn't stike them dead when they disobeyed.
Point three God doesn't allow man to do it, man does it because he is given free will. No one know what God may do to those that divorced in the final judgement.
Point four God said do not commit adultery. The adulterer was to be stoned but since social justice doesn't stone aduterers anymore God freed the spouse from the dead man walking.
Point Five Like I said an adulterer is to be stoned so in effect they are dead to God so Jesus allowed the innocent spouse to be free from the dead carcass.

And you are gonna say .....

[davido]

God will always hear the prayer of the righteous.
God will stand behind a man seeking the marriage where
God can lead the priest and prophet.

God will never put a man or woman in bondage to Satan.
That would contradict just about every scripture in the bible.
In reading Proverbs 2, if Jesus changed the law of Moses
concerning divorce, it would disavow nearly all of chapter
2 of Proverbs and one can continue to black line whereever
the righteous are held captive.

Try going thru perhaps Proverbs 2 onwards and note where
God whets his sword against the wicked. That would be
changed if Jesus changed the law.

Any time a man risks his life and takes great risks to
have God in authority of his home, God will be there
to help the man or woman that is righteous.
God is never going to abandon a man whose heart is set
on God ruling in the home as opposed to witchcraft prevailing.


God will not only back the man, thats seeks Gods righteousness
in the home, but will bless abundently above all one can
conceive to bring a home to be established where God
is in control. You'll not find an instance in scripiture
that God was not fullly behind the righteous man and
to say otherwise is pure foolishness.
Gods blessings to the man who seeks God are
more than one can receive.

[frenchie]

Hi!
I think that God forgives, that divorce is not the unpardonable sin and that sometimes for example it is better to end in a divorce than in a bloodbath.
God does'nt want us to change wife every 5 years like we change cars. We are imperfect beeings living in an imperfect world. God knows the hearts he knows if we where sincere in this engagement or not.
I know we can't divorce and remarry at will ignoring the sanctity of marriage but i beleive God can forgive and allow somebody previously married to remarry.
It is easy to juge someone who suffered a broken relationship but if it would hapen to us we might be prompt to searh the scriptures to find verses allowing us to remarry.
I think that one is better to be right with God in such a situation, some day we will have to stand before him and be accomptable for our actions.

I think i did'nt do the best job to express my thoughts but this is my two cents. ( Bracing for reproachs )

[Justaned]

Hi!
I think that God forgives, that divorce is not the unpardonable sin and that sometimes for example it is better to end in a divorce than in a bloodbath.
God does'nt want us to change wife every 5 years like we change cars. We are imperfect beeings living in an imperfect world. God knows the hearts he knows if we where sincere in this engagement or not.
I know we can't divorce and remarry at will ignoring the sanctity of marriage but i beleive God can forgive and allow somebody previously married to remarry.
It is easy to juge someone who suffered a broken relationship but if it would hapen to us we might be prompt to searh the scriptures to find verses allowing us to remarry.
I think that one is better to be right with God in such a situation, some day we will have to stand before him and be accomptable for our actions.

I think i did'nt do the best job to express my thoughts but this is my two cents. ( Bracing for reproachs )

Frenchie
First let me say no one or at least not me is saying divorce and remarriage is the unforgiveable sin.

However there is a problem. When we marry we make an oath/covenant to God and man that we will remain married.

To divorce we must break that oath. Scripture is filled with cautions, admonishments and warnings do not break an oath made to God.

Too many today are marrying with the idea that if it works good and if it doesn't okay. However Hosea 10:4 (NKJV)
4 They have spoken words, Swearing falsely in making a covenant. Thus judgment springs up like hemlock in the furrows of the field.

God says he will bring judgement to them.

I understand about bad marriages but I also know many times I thought of divorce because my rights were being violated. However after the fact and when things calmed down I saw the real problem to be me not wanting to give in, to compromise, to really love this woman I had married.

If we can't keep our word in something so very important as a marriage how can we expect others to accept our word in other situations?

If you tell me you will be with me in good and bad and in hard times and easy how can I believe you when you made that same promise to your wife and did not keep it.

Some will say yes I kept it but my spouse didn't. Scripture says if your spouse goes out and commits adultery you can divorce them. Once adultery has been committed the vow has been broken and the innocent party is free to move on as if their spouse had died.

Marriage is a vow made to God. WE CAN NOT TREAT THAT LIGHTLY WE MUST SACRIFICE ALL TO KEEP IT. EVEN OUR OWN HAPPINESS. If we aren't willing to do that then we should not enter into the vow to begin with. And this is what is being failed to be taught to our young people and those about to get married.

[frenchie]

Thanks! for your kind reply Mr. Justaned,

I think that we have a lot of common ground.

[titus213]

Biblical standards should always be maintained, regarding divorce and remarriage or anything else.
But maintaining them in the secular and church situations in which we are placed today calls for extraordinary wisdom on the part of responsible leaders, as they try to reach a correct judgment on each case as it arises.

I have fairly stiff principles on the subject of divorce and remarriage for a Christian couple; but typically as a pastor I am presented with real-life situations after-the-fact. For example, John and Mary were once married. They have been divorced, and now John has married Ann and Mary has married James. The issue now is, how is this situation to be dealt with in terms of pastoral responsibility?

To simply insist on pushing my principles to their logical conclusion would mean I couldn't help them at all. But just as truth pushed to its logical conclusion in the intellectual realm may become heresy, so truth pushed to its logical conclusion in the practical realm may become tyranny. Here are 4 people, and probably others who are indirectly impacted, who have to be helped. Anyone exercising pastoral responsibility in such a matter must consider first and foremost what action is called for by Christian compassion and love toward all the people concerned. And it will often be discovered that the love of Christ will find a way through where human logic reaches a dead end.

[davido]

father fisher: I completely agree.
I believe today we are to find agreement between the
personal witness of The Holy Spirit and the word.
AS the apostles were inspired, the believer too has
the same Holy Spirit, The Comforter that Jesus
sent when He ascended whom The Spirit is active
and quick to reveal God's will to the believer in their
specific situation. Have we the foreknowledge given
by way of The Holy Spirit those things we could not
possibly know in the natual, we have the confidence
that we can without condemnation trust The Holy
Spirit. Too, The Spirit nearly 45 years ago upon
by honorable discharge from the armed services
in the Viet Nam conflict, did winess to me 1 Corinthians
3. This is perhaps a chaper that has more books written
than any other chapter of which we are to mature
in Christ... in otherword grow up in Christ of which
I have done. Thus when the Holy Spirit gives me
that a marriage has comsunmated with information
beyong my mind, I will trust in The witness of The
Holy Spirit just as did the inspiried apostles.
We have available to us, the same Spirit of God
that the apostles, and that is absolute.
The righteous believer, has this grace of God
to partake the witness of The Spirit of God,
as we led of The Spirit being priests and prophets
of our househld. The revealing by The Spirit of God
is not given to a minister of God, which is in the books
of Timothy to develop the believer towards being
a priest and prophet of his home, rather that The
Spirit would not impart divine vision to the minister.
Thus a minister can council, uplift, convery the
bible to his congreation he then does that without
condemnation as there is more to the testament
of Jesus Christ that the four gospel, but we too
have the book of grace, never debated, Romans.
As I go thru the qualifications and attributes of
pastors I see none that are called to cause as you
say, tyranny, or condemnation. What is important
that as a believer The Holy Spirit not myself entertained
the consumation of a marraige, but The Holy Spirit
Himself. I realize many of your paritioners are not
in the The Spirit, thus you are cast into a burden
to council, but for myself I had not of myself,
but that of The Spirit which takes priority over
all else, having also the agreement of the word
properly translated.
What is overlooked is that we desire to keep the
marriage, having gone beyond what God requires
and the Spirit reveals that our mis application
to marriage in being loyal no matter what,
is over. So theres a differane that a man never
gives up or of his own discretion seeks to dissolve
a marriage, but when it is the revelation of The
Spirit that we should no longer strive with division
and strife of a lady whom is ademate in witchcraft
that we rather obey the Spirit. Man has much degenerated
attitudes that they in underestimating a man, may
be grieving The Spirit.
Today divorcd people are judged by the church the laws of the new
testament, but this is not of God.
I find a host of people whom have been judged
by churches, religious people not knowing God,
by outward appearances, not the things of God.
In a position in the church it is difficult without
the witness of The Holy Spirit for ministers
to know all truth. Thus in some small way
I can minister to those deeply hurt and cast from
the congreation that have been condemned by
Satan, religious people having no insight nor
knowing doctrine. The fields to reap souls
are among these that have been tyranized
by religious people not knowing Jesus Christ
themselves.