Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Modern "GRACE" gospel

[branham1965]

Chris,
no need to go easy on me.i can handle it.
i did not say that about water Baptism.Jesus did in Mark 16:15-16,Matthew 28:18-20 and Peter did in Acts 2:38-39.
when people got saved in Apostolic times they repented Acts 20:21and were baptized in Jesus Name for the remission of sins.that means they were put to death with Jesus Christ and when they received the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues in Acts 2,8,10,9,19,22 etc.Romans 6 and the other verses i quoted.
if somethings changed its us.not God's Word.
ive read 1 Cor 1.more than most.this does not contradict the Apostles doctrine in Acts.he is not nullifying or negating water baptism!!!he like Jesus simply did not baptize John 4:1-2.but others did Cephas yes???Apollos did ???yes.verse 13 were you baptized in what NAME ???and he talks about it profusely throughout his epistles.woe to the people who dare change the clear Word of God to mean something else.thats what folks should be worried about.
im not boasting.im nothing.helpless.hopeless without Jesus.everything i have is real.and is from the Lord by the Holy Ghost.where you are getting on this filthy rags stuff is beyond me!!!!i know that.i knew it when you were but a babe in arms!!!

im 51 years old not some kid.i know the real and the false.
the real involves PENTECOST.REAL PENTECOST.thats why you are on here preaching that grace only stuff.
it was real in Warren.and even more real here in LFAC.

I was going to reply with something else, but deleted it, because some of this...stuff...you are putting up on here is simply wrong.

You say that to be saved, we must be water baptized. What about Paul? Paul said he was not sent to baptize (read 1 Corinthians chapter 1). Interesting...

You say that we must be baptized in the Spirit and SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES. Show me in the Bible where that is so? Show me where one MUST speak in tongues to be saved? Interstingly enough, you cannot, and you will not.

All the obedience stuff you are posting? Yes, we must obey, but that is not what saves us. It is simply the natural work of our faith. God's grace, that which we do not, did not, and never will deserve, is what saved, along with our receiving through faith. For you to mix your works in there and say you were saved because of how good you are is wrong. That is boasting, and Paul CLEARLY wrote that we cannot boast. In fact, if there was anyone who could boast, he said it was him. But what did he say all the things in the flesh were, the works, were? dung. You know what Isaiah 64:6 says? Isaiah says that our righteousness, all of our good things we have done, when placed before God, is as filthy rags. A dirty, used up, tampon. That is what you really think we should be depending on to be saved? A used up tampon? Really?

Through faith, we attain the grace of God to be saved. It is through faith, not of our works. You cannot boast. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is good, and we all should be. Speaking in tongues is good, and we all should. But to say that they are needed to be saved? Really? Really? It amazes me the things you say sometimes. I mean, you just keep adding more and more onto what one needs to do to be saved. When the Bible teaches that all we need to do is believe. What you believe, you will do and speak. But you do not do and speak to be saved, you do and speak because you are saved. Ephesians 2:10 tells me that much. Romans 10:9 & 10 also says that.

There is no other name under heaven given to man that they may be saved....water baptism, spirit baptism, doing good works...none of that saves the soul. Only faith in the Name of Jesus. It is through that faith that we are saved, by grace.

Our works is evidence of our faith, not a replacement for God's grace.

[branham1965]

Rocky

thanks.
i know there are people who disagree with me.
i look at the new testament examples.when they received the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues.in every case.that is the GIFT of the Holy Ghost.He was not given because Jesus was not Glorified.when He was then Jesus baptized the Disciples with the Holy Ghost.
i was delivered in Warren in a AG type Church.and down here in a Apostolic Oneness Church.and you would not believe how many Trinitarians i contacted and heard nothing.or what i heard ... because they did not have what i needed deliverance salvation safety healing soundness cf Rom 11:16 Scofield Bible.LFAC was right there.and Jesus was there.like he was with Brother Branham 70 years ago.

I happen to agree with cpbeller on the speaking in tongues as part of salvation, And branham you are one of my favorite posters on here. But that originated with the early oneness holiness movements. As Well as water baptism required, though I can understand the water baptism thing with the oneness denominations because scripter does allude to that, but not in the way some teach . But on speaking in tongues, there is not one scripter in the bible that states that. Even Paul said though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not love it profit me nothing. And cpbeller I know how that teachers curse goes lol. I have a tendency to be a bit wordy myself. One time I taught at church for almost two hours, then noticed I put one person to sleep. I guess what I as teaching on must have been not that exiting to him, and since then have learned not to be so long winded..

[macca]

It was the natural way in the book of Acts, anyone that says different is telling porkies..
Now why is it so different now? do know better or are we better informed?
Maybe like i said, you may be onto something here Billy.

macca

[branham1965]

It was the natural way in the book of Acts, anyone that says different is telling porkies..
Now why is it so different now? do know better or are we better informed?
Maybe like i said, you may be onto something here Billy.

macca

thanks for being so kind macca.
we moved.we changed.can you imagine the people at Azusa Street teaching what people are implying???
we would be in gross darkness.Reverend Dake himself would not have been saved or got the Holy Ghost!!!he saw alot of hypocrites.and he saw some real fire baptized people who lived it.it caused him to call on the Name of the Lord.

the forefathers in Pentecost were on the other side of the tracks.looked down upon.they struggled through that.now they are the big men and women on campus.we like Israel of old forget their struggle.

[cpbeller]

Ok, Billy...you are wrong, but ok. I have done what I can, given the truth, and you continue to reject it. But on a note, you claim that Dake was always right, or always spot on? You might want to check Dake's notes on baptism, because you are at complete odds with his teaching. In fact, take a look at his notes on Matthew 3:6, particularly 3 Baptisms for the Believer (in my bible it is NOTE n).

I also want to address one other point. You continue to bring up your age when in discussion with me. You continue to disregard the things I say, because you are older than I am. The only thing your age proves is your pride. There are plenty of men, older than you, who have died and gone to hell because they "knew more" because they were older. Just something to think about, Billy.




Macca, you said this: "Maybe like i said, you may be onto something here Billy."

The only thing Billy is on to in regards to this doctrine he is pushing on here is a false doctrine. We are NOT saved by works. We are saved by grace, through faith. It doesn't take water baptism, it doesn't take speaking in tongues (in fact, a man cannot even receive the baptism in the spirit until AFTER he is saved, the Spirit cannot be received by natural man), it doesn't even take cleaning up your own life (we cannot clean up our own lives without the power of God anyways). All it takes is child-like faith in the Name of Jesus. That is it. This nonsense mixing works into the salvation process is tossing a filthy, dirty, rotten, all used up tampon before God and telling Him that he must save us based off of that filth. That is what our righteousness is like before God (Isaiah 64:6).

I will say this one more time, and after this, I wash my hands of this discussion. If people want to believe that God owes them salvation because of the works that they do, then so be it. Stand before Almighty God, shaking your fist in demand. But the truth of the matter is this:


Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

God bless, and be cautious of these false doctrines that rob God the glory of his grace in the life of the Christian.

[branham1965]

Chris,
you are fighting against the Lord.
ACTS 2:38-39 SAYS REPENT AND BE IMMERSED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION -FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!!!!! if thats changed its not by the Lord.its by man.
you can attack me.basically say im going to hell and so on ...but im the bad guy.
no Chris
its not pride.i know im garbage.total filth and trash without the BLOOD OF JESUS.im telling you the truth.
the dead man you once knew really died and is now alive=because of the Lord Jesus Christ. praise you Jesus.
Chris
you REALLY need what my Pastor/Bishop practices and preaches.the real genuine New Testament Pentecostal Apostolic Holy Ghost experience.

Ok, Billy...you are wrong, but ok. I have done what I can, given the truth, and you continue to reject it. But on a note, you claim that Dake was always right, or always spot on? You might want to check Dake's notes on baptism, because you are at complete odds with his teaching. In fact, take a look at his notes on Matthew 3:6, particularly 3 Baptisms for the Believer (in my bible it is NOTE n).

I also want to address one other point. You continue to bring up your age when in discussion with me. You continue to disregard the things I say, because you are older than I am. The only thing your age proves is your pride. There are plenty of men, older than you, who have died and gone to hell because they "knew more" because they were older. Just something to think about, Billy.




Macca, you said this: "Maybe like i said, you may be onto something here Billy."

The only thing Billy is on to in regards to this doctrine he is pushing on here is a false doctrine. We are NOT saved by works. We are saved by grace, through faith. It doesn't take water baptism, it doesn't take speaking in tongues (in fact, a man cannot even receive the baptism in the spirit until AFTER he is saved, the Spirit cannot be received by natural man), it doesn't even take cleaning up your own life (we cannot clean up our own lives without the power of God anyways). All it takes is child-like faith in the Name of Jesus. That is it. This nonsense mixing works into the salvation process is tossing a filthy, dirty, rotten, all used up tampon before God and telling Him that he must save us based off of that filth. That is what our righteousness is like before God (Isaiah 64:6).

I will say this one more time, and after this, I wash my hands of this discussion. If people want to believe that God owes them salvation because of the works that they do, then so be it. Stand before Almighty God, shaking your fist in demand. But the truth of the matter is this:


Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

God bless, and be cautious of these false doctrines that rob God the glory of his grace in the life of the Christian.

[branham1965]

i will post here what i told Chris in a pm.
im not going to ever badmouth the founder here.i reverence him.i believe in unity in diversity.we can agree to disagree.William Branham was Oneness.his best friend was F.F.Bosworth the author of Christ the Healer.they loved each other.as did he and a whole bunch of other Preachers...though they differed some in doctrine.

i have spent my money and dug into this,ive read and listened to DEBATES.and ive attended one.
my point is ive been aware of Bishop Athanasius,Bishop Arius and Bishop Sabellius for awhile now.not just a few months.
i heard the Oneness Apostolic message taught in the early 1980's by a Preacher named Elder Vernon L.Cayton.he came in the barbershop in Warren,Ohio.he was a big powerful man.from the South.i was amazed at his command of Scripture.very militant.they would go to Churches and challenge them to debate etc.at first we hated each other.at first.we later were good truck driving buddies.

[Rocky]

Chris,
you are fighting against the Lord.
ACTS 2:38-39 SAYS REPENT AND BE IMMERSED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION -FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST!!!!! if thats changed its not by the Lord.its by man.
you can attack me.basically say im going to hell and so on ...but im the bad guy.
no Chris
its not pride.i know im garbage.total filth and trash without the BLOOD OF JESUS.im telling you the truth.
the dead man you once knew really died and is now alive=because of the Lord Jesus Christ. praise you Jesus.
Chris
you REALLY need what my Pastor/Bishop practices and preaches.the real genuine New Testament Pentecostal Apostolic Holy Ghost experience.

Ok, Billy...you are wrong, but ok. I have done what I can, given the truth, and you continue to reject it. But on a note, you claim that Dake was always right, or always spot on? You might want to check Dake's notes on baptism, because you are at complete odds with his teaching. In fact, take a look at his notes on Matthew 3:6, particularly 3 Baptisms for the Believer (in my bible it is NOTE n).

I also want to address one other point. You continue to bring up your age when in discussion with me. You continue to disregard the things I say, because you are older than I am. The only thing your age proves is your pride. There are plenty of men, older than you, who have died and gone to hell because they "knew more" because they were older. Just something to think about, Billy.




Macca, you said this: "Maybe like i said, you may be onto something here Billy."

The only thing Billy is on to in regards to this doctrine he is pushing on here is a false doctrine. We are NOT saved by works. We are saved by grace, through faith. It doesn't take water baptism, it doesn't take speaking in tongues (in fact, a man cannot even receive the baptism in the spirit until AFTER he is saved, the Spirit cannot be received by natural man), it doesn't even take cleaning up your own life (we cannot clean up our own lives without the power of God anyways). All it takes is child-like faith in the Name of Jesus. That is it. This nonsense mixing works into the salvation process is tossing a filthy, dirty, rotten, all used up tampon before God and telling Him that he must save us based off of that filth. That is what our righteousness is like before God (Isaiah 64:6).

I will say this one more time, and after this, I wash my hands of this discussion. If people want to believe that God owes them salvation because of the works that they do, then so be it. Stand before Almighty God, shaking your fist in demand. But the truth of the matter is this:


Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

God bless, and be cautious of these false doctrines that rob God the glory of his grace in the life of the Christian.

Hi branham, please read brother.
I know you are one who loves the Lord according to your confession. And I mean no disrespect to you or your church and Pastor. Being baptised in the name of Jesus means by the authority of Jesus. Meaning as him being Gods agent in salvation and Gods redemptive plan for man, and all that entails. Not being baptised in water with invoking his name like the biblical formula we are given in Matt 28. You see being baptised unto Christ is not speaking of water baptism. That is what water baptism symbolizes, us being dead, buried, and resurrected with Christ through faith. Being baptized unto Christ is what happens when the sinner Comes to Christ when initial salvation takes place before water baptism and the baptism of the Holy ghost with the evidence of speaking with other tongues. If that were the case how does one explain the thief on the cross? Now there is a lot of I believe, error in the oneness theology. Even without getting into the tri-unity of God. Water baptism does not save in the sense the oneness denomination teaches, or the way ROMAN catholics believe, which in a sense is similar. I know you have a DARB, read and study the notes on Acts 2:38 and 10:48, and Romans 6:3-5 this helped me to understand this. I believe water baptism if we are able, we need to be water baptized but the act does not bring salvation. And concerning speaking in tongues that is not required for salvation aswell. Yes without the Holy spirit one cannot be saved. But if you study this every Born again believer at initial salvation has the indwelling workings of the holy spirit(2 timothy 1:14) to regenerate(Titus 3:5) to convict of sin(john 16:8) to be a helper(John 14:26)to sanctify(Romans 15:16). But that is a separate then the baptism of the holy Ghost(John 20:22). The baptism of the Holy Ghost is not for salvation but to be empowered for service to recieve the gifts of the spirit, for ministry to be witnesses. For every born again believer to receive Power to do the works of Christ, the miracle working of Christ etc.

[macca]

Ok, Billy...you are wrong, but ok. I have done what I can, given the truth, and you continue to reject it. But on a note, you claim that Dake was always right, or always spot on? You might want to check Dake's notes on baptism, because you are at complete odds with his teaching. In fact, take a look at his notes on Matthew 3:6, particularly 3 Baptisms for the Believer (in my bible it is NOTE n).

I also want to address one other point. You continue to bring up your age when in discussion with me. You continue to disregard the things I say, because you are older than I am. The only thing your age proves is your pride. There are plenty of men, older than you, who have died and gone to hell because they "knew more" because they were older. Just something to think about, Billy.




Macca, you said this: "Maybe like i said, you may be onto something here Billy."

The only thing Billy is on to in regards to this doctrine he is pushing on here is a false doctrine. We are NOT saved by works. We are saved by grace, through faith. It doesn't take water baptism, it doesn't take speaking in tongues (in fact, a man cannot even receive the baptism in the spirit until AFTER he is saved, the Spirit cannot be received by natural man), it doesn't even take cleaning up your own life (we cannot clean up our own lives without the power of God anyways). All it takes is child-like faith in the Name of Jesus. That is it. This nonsense mixing works into the salvation process is tossing a filthy, dirty, rotten, all used up tampon before God and telling Him that he must save us based off of that filth. That is what our righteousness is like before God (Isaiah 64:6).

I will say this one more time, and after this, I wash my hands of this discussion. If people want to believe that God owes them salvation because of the works that they do, then so be it. Stand before Almighty God, shaking your fist in demand. But the truth of the matter is this:


Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

God bless, and be cautious of these false doctrines that rob God the glory of his grace in the life of the Christian.

Stike a light, has WW3 started? and no muslums in sight!
I agree with all you say Chris,, its the force of the holiness message that struck me from what Billy is saying....

Like the book of Acts describes, the power with God that the christians had then and my lack of, is were i am coming from? i think

They were saved, baptised in water, baptised in the Spirit with tongues flying everywhere to the point of it being a natural consequence and the power of God very evident.
(Spirit baptism and water baptism in no particular order)

Holiness being the bond that held it all together,,,,Acts.5:

Once holiness eased the showman took over and sin ruled the camp....

does that make any sense??????????????

macca

[macca]