Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Modern "GRACE" gospel

[branham1965]

Chris,
without HOLINESS no one sees the Lord.
one must live free from all sin to be saved.Reverend Dake was always spot on.and his teaching on Grace is as well.Grace only was being taught by folks in 1949 when he did GPFM.


do you hear Titus 2 being taught by Grace Only's????

do you even confess your sins to the Lord or is it all Grace now???
the bloke that fornicated in 1 Cor 5 did Grace cover him?????did Grace cover other sinners or backsliders in the Bible???? never.they had to do something for God to do something.

WE WOULD NEVER EVER EVER HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST IF OUR FATHERS IN THE MOST HOLY FAITH BELIEVED THAT!!!!!!!!!!
i heard a Jewish Rabbi talk about why he and his fellows hate our LORD JESUS CHRIST.he has degrees out his ears.and he is lost.he is of the devil.he admitted Zech 13:6 was JESUS!!!!! the Jews are blinded.Romans 11.and how many have died blinded.Reverend John Hagee has some of them saved but he is deceived as well!!!!!!
SO CALLED PENTECOSTALS AND SO CALLED CHARISMATICS TODAY DONT BELIEVE A PERSON WHO RECIEVES THE GOOD HOLY GHOST MUST MUST MUST MUST SPEAK IN OTHER TONGUES!!!!!DAVID DUPLESSIS NEVER TAUGHT THAT!!!HE WAS WITH WIGGLESWORTH!!!
ALL MR.PENTECOST EVER TALKED ABOUT WAS THE BAPTISM AND THE INITIAL EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN OTHER TONGUES!!!!!
PENTECOSTAL PIONEERS LIKE WILLIAM SEYMOUR,CHARLES PARHAM AND G.T.HAYWOOD AND THE OTHERS NEVER EVER TAUGHT SUCH A THING.NEVER.
maybe i will learn how to spell someday

Billy, how is grace being overemphasized? That is where our salvation begins, at grace. Preaching works to an unsaved person is not going to get them saved...we preach grace, the gospel, not the law, or even the keeping of the law, other than to show them that they have sinned and need a saviour. Which again, points to grace.

Even Paul said, "I am what I am by the grace of God".

I do not believe we can over-emphasize God's grace. And if preaching God's grace is giving a liscense to sin? Like I heard Rod Parsley say years ago, "they don't need a liscense to sin, they are sinning good enough on their own".

I mean, the grace of God IS the gospel of Christ. By His grace, he took our place. His love for us is what drove him to die in our place. Why is it wrong to preach that? Why is it considered wrong and being "unbalanced" or "over-emphasizing" grace to preach that?

The Bible is very clear...works will not, never will, never can, and never will be able to save us. Do we, as Christians, need to check out walk? Sure we do, but we are not to rely on our works. Because once we do, then we set up the argument that God owes us salvation. Before you say you are not saying that, think about it. You are saying that we must perform to be saved. If it is a performance by us to be saved, then God owes us salvation. It is no longer by grace (something not earned), but by payment (wages we earned) from God. If that is the case, then we can raise a fist in the face of God and demand admittance into heaven. I say, that is in no way how we are saved. We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. When it comes to our salvation, there cannot be any boasting, because it is not by my own goodness that God saved me. It was by grace, and my acceptance on bended knee of that grace that saved me. Nothing I did earned it, nothing I could ever do could ever earn it. It is by grace.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, ant that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice, we are saved by grace, through faith. Not of works. We do the works not to be saved, but because we are saved.

[cpbeller]

I confess according to 1 John 1:9.

[Rocky]

Works is the natural flow from our faith. Again, we do not do works to be saved, we do works because we are saved. There is a difference.

Sorry this is going to be a bit long but i just want to help, the following I believe God showed me.
I do want to address this statement. Is this shared by the majority of christians today? Because this, according to the bible is a contradiction."we do works because we are saved" is not found in scripture, nether does it say works is a natural flow from our faith. And cpbeller this is not an attack on you, because you, as I was, were told this, you got that from a teacher or preacher and I have heard Joseph prince and others make similar statements. lets looks at this scripturally. I want to put just two Scriptures here. First Paul "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast". Now James " Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only". Ok with the above statements that I am addressing, with that logic, these two Scriptures contradict and with the mentality of "we do works because we are saved" I think does not harmonize these scriptures. First of all the bible does not teach faith only for the believer only for initial salvation. You see Paul is talking about the works of the law such as circumcision, ceremonial washings, sabbath keeping etc. James is talking about benevolence, love, meeting the needs of your fellow believers,birdieing the tongue and christian behavior in general. Even Paul tells us to walk and live after the fruit of the spirit. John in his letters tells us to keep our selves unspotted from the world. Not one scripture teaches that this as an automatic thing that takes place, Because we are free moral agents even as christians,Though the Holy Spirit does help us in this process. James and Paul are talking about two different subjects here pertaining to works and faith . The reason why Paul makes the statements he does about works in Romans, Galatians and Ephesian is to combat and refute those of the circumcision that were trying to get the gentile christians to conform to the law, the ceremonialism of the law in order to be a christian and to get "Saved". There is no separation between good works and faith in the bible for the believer we must have both because faith without works is dead. There is however a separation of faith and Judaism, which is what Paul is talking about in a lot of his letters. The above statement about "works is a natural flow from faith" is kind of a Calvinistic view even though those that teach and believe that are not calvinist. John Calvin made similar statements because he believed God predestaned people for salvation. So if God predestined people they will automatically walk in the spirit have good works because it is God sovereign choice who is to be saved. separation of works and faith faith for the believer will only lead to confusion because it is not biblical to do so...........On a side note Jimmy Swaggart is doing the same thing in his Message of the Cross theology. He is separating Works and faith for the believer aswell. I just wanted to throw that in there because of the thread I started about his teachings.

[cpbeller]

I have deleted my message for the time being, to re-word what it is I am trying to say after spending some time sharing with a close friend and spiritual mentor...will be back later to continue the discussion.

[macca]

Chris,
without HOLINESS no one sees the Lord.
one must live free from all sin to be saved.Reverend Dake was always spot on.and his teaching on Grace is as well.Grace only was being taught by folks in 1949 when he did GPFM.


do you hear Titus 2 being taught by Grace Only's????

do you even confess your sins to the Lord or is it all Grace now???
the bloke that fornicated in 1 Cor 5 did Grace cover him?????did Grace cover other sinners or backsliders in the Bible???? never.they had to do something for God to do something.

WE WOULD NEVER EVER EVER HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST IF OUR FATHERS IN THE MOST HOLY FAITH BELIEVED THAT!!!!!!!!!!
i heard a Jewish Rabbi talk about why he and his fellows hate our LORD JESUS CHRIST.he has degrees out his ears.and he is lost.he is of the devil.he admitted Zech 13:6 was JESUS!!!!! the Jews are blinded.Romans 11.and how many have died blinded.Reverend John Hagee has some of them saved but he is deceived as well!!!!!!
SO CALLED PENTECOSTALS AND SO CALLED CHARISMATICS TODAY DONT BELIEVE A PERSON WHO RECIEVES THE GOOD HOLY GHOST MUST MUST MUST MUST SPEAK IN OTHER TONGUES!!!!!DAVID DUPLESSIS NEVER TAUGHT THAT!!!HE WAS WITH WIGGLESWORTH!!!
ALL MR.PENTECOST EVER TALKED ABOUT WAS THE BAPTISM AND THE INITIAL EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN OTHER TONGUES!!!!!
PENTECOSTAL PIONEERS LIKE WILLIAM SEYMOUR,CHARLES PARHAM AND G.T.HAYWOOD AND THE OTHERS NEVER EVER TAUGHT SUCH A THING.NEVER.
maybe i will learn how to spell someday :scatter

......


I believe you on to somethig here Billy

macca

- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - -

Billy, how is grace being overemphasized? That is where our salvation begins, at grace. Preaching works to an unsaved person is not going to get them saved...we preach grace, the gospel, not the law, or even the keeping of the law, other than to show them that they have sinned and need a saviour. Which again, points to grace.

Even Paul said, "I am what I am by the grace of God".

I do not believe we can over-emphasize God's grace. And if preaching God's grace is giving a liscense to sin? Like I heard Rod Parsley say years ago, "they don't need a liscense to sin, they are sinning good enough on their own".

I mean, the grace of God IS the gospel of Christ. By His grace, he took our place. His love for us is what drove him to die in our place. Why is it wrong to preach that? Why is it considered wrong and being "unbalanced" or "over-emphasizing" grace to preach that?

The Bible is very clear...works will not, never will, never can, and never will be able to save us. Do we, as Christians, need to check out walk? Sure we do, but we are not to rely on our works. Because once we do, then we set up the argument that God owes us salvation. Before you say you are not saying that, think about it. You are saying that we must perform to be saved. If it is a performance by us to be saved, then God owes us salvation. It is no longer by grace (something not earned), but by payment (wages we earned) from God. If that is the case, then we can raise a fist in the face of God and demand admittance into heaven. I say, that is in no way how we are saved. We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. When it comes to our salvation, there cannot be any boasting, because it is not by my own goodness that God saved me. It was by grace, and my acceptance on bended knee of that grace that saved me. Nothing I did earned it, nothing I could ever do could ever earn it. It is by grace.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, ant that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice, we are saved by grace, through faith. Not of works. We do the works not to be saved, but because we are saved.

[stand]

We are saved by grace through faith, evidenced by works. If there is no works, there is no faith, and grace is not received by the person. This is my understanding.

[cpbeller]

We are saved by grace through faith, evidenced by works. If there is no works, there is no faith, and grace is not received by the person. This is my understanding.

Give the man a hotdog, that is what I have been trying to say!! This...this is what I have been trying to say.

[macca]

looks like a touchy subject Chris,, don't know why they pick on you?
macca

[cpbeller]

who knows, Macca...guess I was being too wordy, hoping I could explain. I have my thoughts on a lot of things in regards to this board, though (and that is why I don't hardly ever post here anymore). But it is all good. But Stand stated exactly what I have been trying to say, in such a direct manner...heh, guess I have the teachers curse and try to explain and explain, when sometimes, it just needs to be point blank like Stand did here.

[branham1965]

what does the Lord's brother James say?????
if the woman with the issue of blood had not "done" something she would never have been healed.Mark 5.
if the lepers did not obey the Lord and "do" something they would have still been lepers.
if the Peter did not step out in faith would he have walked on the water???
if the Apostles had not "done" something and let down their net at Jesus' Word how many fish would they have caught????
Mary told the fellows in John 2:6 whatsoever He saith unto you DO IT.
if they had not what would have happened???wine or no wine????



when Peter adressed the crowd on Pentecost did he tell them what to "do"???Acts 2:38-39.
when Phillip joined himself to the Eunuch and preached Jesus why on earth or heaven did the man say recorded for all eternity here is WATER what doth hinder me to be baptized.did he "do" something???
Jesus said in John 6:28-29 that believing on Him was a work.
when Peter was led to Cornelius Acts 10 did they need to respond???what did he command them to "do".he commanded them to be baptized in Jesus' Name .they received the Holy Ghost Baptism and spoke in other tongues.
Paul was told by the Risen Lord Jesus what he must ...."do".Acts 9 & 22.
believers in Ephesus were told they had to "do" something.they got the Holy Ghost and were baptized in water in Jesus' name.

Paul said to the Romans as many of you as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death.Rom 6.
they were immersed in the Name of Jesus Christ to receive the blessing from the Lord.cf Gal 3:26ff,Eph 2:14ff,Col 2:12ff.
they obeyed from the heart Acts 8:36ff the form of doctrine they received!!!
repent and believe the Gospel.be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and be baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues.THAT IS THE WORD OF GOD.AND IT IS GOD'S PLAN.
men may revile it.say it is some thing else.not so.its the Apostle's Doctrine cf.Acts 2:42.and he that heareth God heareth the Apostles.see 1 John 4;6"we are of God.he that knoweth God heareth us.he that is not of God heareth us not.hereby know we the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
and so if we are not listening to them=because of pride,stubbornness,religiosity,analogies pretending to be Hebrew-Greek scholars 101 other things and "doing" somthing.we are
again perhaps because of the Catholic Church people have changed these verses that are clear and plain to mean something else.
there is a book sold right on here Ministry Helps called the Eternal Church by Dr.Bill Hamon.he talks about some of this.

We are saved by grace through faith, evidenced by works. If there is no works, there is no faith, and grace is not received by the person. This is my understanding.