Jay wrote:Thanks Macca, but you too, are using a future event and tying it into a past event. Rev. 12 is in the future and Satan's fall was in the past. We don't know exactly how many angels fell with Lucifer. It could have been less and it could have been more than a third. But, if we read ALL of Rev. 12 as a future event and not parts of it, we have to see that a third of the angels will fall in the future. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here. Just trying to understand why people take part of Rev 12 as past and part of it as future. What it all boils down to is "tradition". Someone taught this years ago and it was taken as gospel truth. Just like Paul's thorn in the flesh. Someone taught that it was an eye problem when the Bible NEVER teaches that. I think we have to be very careful about teaching what we have heard as opposed to what the Word actually says.
Anyway, I love you guys and appreciate all of your feedback here. We are all friends of Dake and brothers in Christ!
JayMc
macca wrote:Jay wrote:There is something that I have pondered for many years now and would like to know what you guys think.
We know that angels fell and took women and the outcome was the giants in the land. The whole purpose was to cut off the blood line from which Christ would be born. I was taught in seminary and have always believed that it got so bad, that the only people left that did not have their blood infected by that of the giants, were Noah and his family. Therefore, it was an act of mercy for God to flood the earth and destroy all the other living beings so He could preserve the Godly blood line. Dake teaches that there were many tribes of people (Rephaim, Anakim, Emim, Zamzummim, etc.) that had their blood polluted with that of the giants. That is why the Hebrews were told to kill every living being.
We see David taking on Goliath and later, during his reign, Goliath's four brothers. With their deaths, the battle with the giants was finished. Fallen angels HAD to have been here AFTER the flood. Did more angels fall AFTER Noah's flood or were they still here from the original fall? We know that some of them are held in Tartarus until the day of judgment. The Book of Enoch sheds some light on this situation although it is not considered to be canonical.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 1:6-7
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. [7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Now, my question.
Rev. 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Every minister, including Dake, that I have ever heard comment on this passage of scripture throws it back to the time of Noah. But, it looks to me that this is a FUTURE event. Why would everything else in Revelation 12 be future tense and this one passage be past tense? Are more angels going to fall in the future, one third of them, in fact? If they do, it will not be to cut off the Godly blood line so what will be their purpose? How will they be manifest? Apparently, before, they could take on physical bodies if they were able to procreate with humans. If they are going to fall again, will they look like normal human beings? It really brings up a lot of questions but I do believe it is a future event.
JayMc
I will throw it back even further to the time that Satan rebelled in the first place,, Isa 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:11-19; and that is when Satan led a third of God's angels up to dethrone God.
Jesus said that He saw Satan fall like lightning to earth, ever since then he has been the Prince of the power of the air. He resides in the atmosphere with his fallen angels and principalities, powers,rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places... Eph.2:2; 6:12; Those that witheld Gabriel from answering Daniel's prayer for 21
days... and Michael had to help him out. Dan 10. 10:12-13;
Not every fallen angel left their first estate to cohabit with the daughters of man.
A third of the angels fell according to Rev 12:4; and in this verse they and satan are cast down to the earth and stuck here amoung men,, they are not permitted back into the air."atmosphere'.
The word stars also means that that is how much of the universe was corrupted by satan's rebellion, 1/3rd of the literal stars that were ruled by angels....Job. 38:7;
are tainted by rebelion and will be renewed like as the earth.,.Rev. 21-22: 2 Pet. 3:13; Isa. 65:17;
macca
point taken
