Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Comparative Soteriology: Stanley, Copeland, Hagin, & Dake

[Spiritblade Disciple]

What the NASB calls "in the Spirit", the KJV says is "by the Spirit".
"... being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
The subject is the Spirit, by which Jesus was both made alive, and by which He had preached through the prophets to the long dead, in the times of, among others, Moses.
1 Peter 1:10-12, and 1 Peter 3:20 refer to that past age.

You're likely not alone in that view.

[macca]

The word of God does not teach JDS, as taught by Copeland and others.
It has been added to the bible.
Even the Christian singer Don Francisco has a song that espouses this addition to the word of God.
The bible teaches the death of The messiah on the cross was sufficient.
If it is not in bible it comes from man, not God.

[Hill Top]

What the NASB calls "in the Spirit", the KJV says is "by the Spirit".
"... being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
The subject is the Spirit, by which Jesus was both made alive, and by which He had preached through the prophets to the long dead, in the times of, among others, Moses.
1 Peter 1:10-12, and 1 Peter 3:20 refer to that past age.

You're likely not alone in that view.

I hope so.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I asked Grok to compile the strongest arguments that Copeland and Hagin have presented for the "Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine.

Here's what Grok wrote:

The strongest arguments advanced by Kenneth E. Hagin and Kenneth Copeland for the claim that Jesus died spiritually

These rest on a specific chain of biblical interpretation, logical necessity, and substitutionary reasoning. They present these as the only way the atonement could fully address the human condition created by Adam’s fall.

1. Spiritual death is the real problem; physical death is secondary
Hagin repeatedly argues from Genesis 2:17 (“in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die”). Adam did not drop dead physically that day; therefore the death God threatened was spiritual—separation from God plus the infusion of Satan’s nature. Physical death later followed as a consequence.
Because the root problem is spiritual death (a change of nature), only a corresponding spiritual death by the Substitute can reverse it. A purely physical death would leave the spiritual problem untouched. Hagin states that Jesus “took upon Himself our sin nature, the nature of spiritual death, that we might have eternal life.” Physical death alone (even of a sinless man) could never remove spiritual death.

2. 2 Corinthians 5:21 requires an actual change of nature
“God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us.”
Both teachers insist this cannot mean merely that Jesus was treated as if He were sin or offered as a sin-offering in a legal sense. It means He actually became sin—He took the sin nature itself into His own spirit. Hagin: “He became what we were.” Copeland goes further: Jesus “accepted the sin nature of Satan” and “the light was turned off.” Only by becoming the very thing that separates man from God could He then be the source of the opposite (righteousness and eternal life) for those who believe.

3. The cry of forsakenness proves the spiritual death occurred
“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46 / Psalm 22:1).
They treat this as the moment the spiritual death took place. The unbroken fellowship of the Trinity was ruptured; the life of God departed from Jesus’ spirit; He was left as a mortal man under the dominion of death and Satan. Copeland has claimed Jesus told him that “it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross” and that Jesus accepted spiritual death in His own spirit. This is presented as the decisive transfer of nature.

4. Physical death alone is insufficient—anyone could die physically
Copeland’s blunt formulation: “It wasn’t a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin… anybody can do that.” Abel, the prophets under the Abrahamic covenant, or the two thieves could have died physically. What made Jesus’ death unique and efficacious was that He voluntarily entered the same spiritual death Adam entered—by choice rather than by treason—so that the legal claim of spiritual death over the human race could be broken.

5. Jesus had to go to hell and be “born again” there
Because spiritual death is the nature of Satan and of hell, Jesus’ spirit had to descend into the prison house of suffering, experience the full penalty, and then be justified/made alive again in the spirit (they cite 1 Timothy 3:16 “justified in the Spirit” and 1 Peter 3:18). Hagin and Copeland teach that Jesus was reborn in hell; only after that regeneration was He raised. The physical resurrection is the outward evidence that the spiritual work in hell was completed. Without the spiritual death and rebirth in hell, the physical death would have been incomplete.

6. Substitutionary logic demands exact correspondence
Man is a spirit who has a soul and lives in a body. The real man is the spirit. Therefore the real atonement must occur in the spirit realm. Jesus, as the last Adam, had to experience in His spirit exactly what the first Adam experienced, so that the new birth could reverse it. Anything less would leave humanity still spiritually dead. This is why they insist the cross was not the finish line; the three days in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40) completed the transaction.

7. Supporting texts they lean on heavily

• Isaiah 53:9–12 (especially the plural “deaths” in some readings and “his soul an offering for sin”).
• Hebrews 2:9 (“taste death for every man”)—they insist this is spiritual death.
• Hebrews 9:26 (“put away sin by the sacrifice of himself”)—sin as nature, not merely acts.
• Psalm 88 and other “lowest pit / darkness” passages applied to Jesus’ experience between death and resurrection.
• The claim that Jesus “put Himself into the hands of Satan” when He became obedient unto death (Philippians 2:8 interpreted through the spiritual-death lens).

These are the core, strongest arguments they advance. They present them as the necessary outworking of a consistent substitutionary atonement that matches the nature of the Fall. The physical cross is essential but incomplete without the spiritual death, the descent, the suffering under Satan’s dominion, and the rebirth in hell that restores the divine nature.

I also asked Google Gemini what the strongest case is for Copeland and Hagin's position on "Jesus Died Spiritually."

Here is what Gemini wrote:

The strongest case for the teaching that Jesus died spiritually—often associated with Word of Faith ministers like Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth E. Hagin—rests on a specific literal interpretation of substitutionary atonement, the nature of spiritual death, and key New Testament passages. Proponents of this view argue that physical death alone was insufficient to pay for human sin, meaning Jesus had to suffer the exact spiritual penalty due to humanity: separation from God.

1. The Principle of Exact Substitution
The core theological foundation is that Jesus was a perfect substitute for humanity.

• The Penalty: Scripture states that the ultimate penalty for sin is spiritual death, defined as separation from God (Genesis 2:17, Romans 6:23).
• The Logic: If human sin produces spiritual death, a Savior who only died physically would not have paid the full penalty.
• The Conclusion: To completely redeem humanity, Jesus had to experience spiritual death, taking our exact place under wrath.

2. The Cry of Dereliction (Matthew 27:46)
On the cross, Jesus cried out, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

• The Argument: Word of Faith theology takes this as a literal description of an event.
• The Interpretation: At that moment, the unbroken, eternal fellowship between the Father and the Son was severed.
• The Impact: This total abandonment by the Father is viewed as the definition of spiritual death.

3. Becoming Sin and the Curse (2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 3:13)
Proponents heavily rely on Paul's letters to describe the mechanics of the crucifixion.

• 2 Corinthians 5:21: Paul writes that God "made him who had no sin to be sin for us." Word of Faith teachers argue this was a literal, spiritual transformation where Jesus absorbed the nature of sin.
• Galatians 3:13: Scripture states Christ became "a curse for us." Because a curse implies spiritual ruin and alienation from God's blessing, they argue this marks a spiritual transition rather than a purely physical one.

4. The Firstborn from the Dead (Colossians 1:18; Acts 13:33)
To explain how Jesus overcame this state, proponents point to His resurrection as a spiritual rebirth.

• The Title: Jesus is called the "firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18). Proponents argue this does not just mean physical resurrection, as others were raised physically before Him (like Lazarus).
• The Rebirth: They interpret Acts 13:33 ("You are my Son; today I have begotten you") as the exact moment in hell when Jesus was spiritually regenerated, or "born again," making Him the blueprint for the Christian new creation.

5. Prophetic Language in Isaiah 53:9
Proponents look to the Old Testament for prophetic validation.

• The Text: The Hebrew text of Isaiah 53:9 literally reads, "And they made his grave with the wicked... although he had done no violence," where the word for "death" is plural (bemotav, meaning "in his deaths").
• The Interpretation: Word of Faith theologians interpret this plurality to mean Jesus suffered two distinct deaths on the cross: first a spiritual death when sin was laid on Him, followed by His physical death.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

The bible teaches the death of The messiah on the cross was sufficient.

So, you're saying that the resurrection of Jesus was unnecessary for our salvation?

[macca]

The bible teaches the death of The messiah on the cross was sufficient.

So, you're saying that the resurrection of Jesus was unnecessary for our salvation?

NO.....what is not necessary is all the added stuff about Jesus having to go into the torment part of hell and fight Satan and demons etc etc, Satan is not in hell anyway, peoples imagination has gone wild and added to the word of God to make it sound more exciting or to get some sort of glory for themselves.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

The bible teaches the death of The messiah on the cross was sufficient.

So, you're saying that the resurrection of Jesus was unnecessary for our salvation?

NO.....what is not necessary is all the added stuff about Jesus having to go into the torment part of hell and fight Satan and demons etc etc, Satan is not in hell anyway, peoples imagination has gone wild and added to the word of God to make it sound more exciting or to get some sort of glory for themselves.

OK. So, if Jesus' resurrection was necessary for our salvation, then the statement that "the bible teaches the death of The Messiah on the cross was insufficient" is false. Death of the Messiah on the cross without His resurrection saves no one.

When you refer to the "torment part of Hell" and that "Satan is not in hell," which Hell are you referring to? Hades? Gehenna? Tartarus? Something else?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Here's another draft by Grok detailing the strongest possible case for the Jesus Died Spiritually doctrine; drawing from Kenneth E. Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Keith Moore, and Charles Capps.

The Strongest and Most Exhaustive Case for the Teaching That Jesus Died Spiritually
(As articulated by E.W. Kenyon, Kenneth E. Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, reinforced by Keith Moore, and further strengthened by Charles Capps)

This is not a peripheral speculation. It is presented as the indispensable center of a consistent substitutionary atonement that exactly corresponds to the nature of the Fall. Without it, the cross remains incomplete, the new birth has no legal or vital foundation, and the believer has no full redemption from spiritual death.

1. The Nature of the Problem Determines the Nature of the Solution

Genesis 2:17: “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Adam did not die physically that day. The death threatened and executed was spiritual: immediate separation from God and the infusion of Satan’s nature into man’s spirit. Physical death, sickness, and poverty later manifested as the inevitable consequences of that spiritual death (Romans 8:2 — “the law of sin and death”).

Man is a spirit who possesses a soul and lives in a body. The real man is the spirit. Therefore the real problem is a change of spiritual nature. A physical death, even of a perfect man, leaves the root untouched. Only a spiritual death by the Substitute can reverse it.

Hagin: “Jesus took upon Himself our sin nature, the nature of spiritual death, that we might have eternal life.”
Kenyon and Hagin both insist that Hebrews 9:26 speaks of putting away sin (the nature), not merely sins (the acts).

2. Exact Substitution Requires Exact Identification

The Law of Identification (Kenyon’s central emphasis) goes beyond “Jesus died for us.” He died as us. We were legally present in Him: crucified with Him, died with Him, buried with Him, made alive with Him (Romans 6; Galatians 2:20; Colossians 2–3).

Because the first Adam’s treason produced spiritual death and union with Satan, the last Adam had to experience the identical spiritual death and temporary union with that same nature — by free choice rather than by treason — so that the legal claim could be broken and a new nature imparted.

Copeland: “It wasn’t a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin… anybody can do that.” Abel, the prophets, or the thieves could die physically. What was unique was that Jesus “put Himself into the hands of Satan… and took that same nature that Adam did.” God’s life “moved out of Him and He accepted the very nature of death itself.” He “accepted the sin nature of Satan” and “the light was turned off.”

3. Logical Necessity — The Argument Pressed by Charles Capps

Capps formulates the necessity with particular clarity and force:
“Man was spiritually dead, how can you revive a spiritually dead man with a physically dead sacrifice? … If man is spiritually dead and he has to be restored to spiritual life, there has to be spiritual death to redeem that man. You can’t redeem it with physical death. It’s an impossibility.”

This is the logical center of the doctrine. Spiritual death is separation from God (the second death). Jesus became spiritually dead — not ceasing to exist, but separated and contaminated with the sin of the world — so that He might obtain spiritual life for us. He paid the penalty of the second death. Without spiritual death there is no eternal redemption for mankind. He had to die all the way; He could not just die physically.

4. 2 Corinthians 5:21 and the Actual Change of Nature

“God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us.”

This is not merely forensic or sacrificial language (“sin-offering”). It is ontological. Jesus became what we were. The sin-nature itself — the nature of spiritual death, the nature of Satan — was laid upon and impregnated into His spirit.

Kenyon: His spirit “absolutely became impregnated with the sin nature of the world.”
Hagin: “He became what we were.”
Copeland: He “had to give up His righteousness” and take Satan’s nature.

Keith Moore sharpens this further: when Jesus became sin, Isaiah 53’s statement that His form and visage were more marred than any man is not limited to the physical. The sin of all generations past, present, and future “contorted him… misshaped him spiritually and every other way. He became sin with our sin and died from it.” Critically, Moore adds: “He could not have died unless he had become sin.” Nothing else could have killed Him.

5. Old Testament Typology as Decisive Proof (Capps)

Capps develops the typology more systematically than most:

• Moses’ rod thrown to the ground becoming a serpent is a type of Jesus becoming sin / spiritual death.
• The brazen serpent lifted on the pole (instead of a lamb) is the same reality: Jesus was made to be sin.

Why a serpent rather than a lamb? Because Jesus was made to be sin. These types, Capps argues, prove beyond theory that spiritual death was required. Without them the doctrine remains speculative; with them it is established in the shadows of the Old Covenant.

6. The Cry of Dereliction and the Two Deaths

“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” is the moment (or the anticipation) of spiritual death. Fellowship within the Godhead was ruptured; the life of God departed from Jesus’ spirit; He was left under the dominion of death and Satan.

Isaiah 53:9 is decisive: the Hebrew is plural (“in his deaths”). Jesus died two deaths — first spiritual (when sin was laid on Him), then physical — or, in Capps’ sequencing, physical death first (the sin offering completed while He remained holy), followed immediately by the placement of sin upon His spirit, after which He became spiritually dead and was ushered into the region of the damned.

His body was like Adam’s pre-Fall body: not subject to death until spiritual death had taken possession of His spirit (or, on Capps’ timeline, the spiritual death followed the physical as the completion of the transaction). Only the full sequence of both deaths could secure redemption.

7. The Descent, the Suffering under Satan, and the Rebirth in Hell

Because spiritual death is the nature of Satan and of hell, Jesus’ spirit had to go into the prison house. He went as a mortal man made sin. Every demon came upon Him; they tortured Him beyond anything ever conceived. His spirit suffered the full torments of the damned until the claims of justice were satisfied (Psalm 88 and the “lowest pit” language are applied here).

Capps is explicit about the location and the outcome: Jesus was ushered into the region of the damned (the gates of hell). There He was born again.
“Jesus was born again in the pit of hell. He was the firstborn, the first begotten, from the dead. He started the church of the firstborn in the gates of hell… He went down to the gates and started His Church there… The Church started when Jesus was born again in the gates of hell.”

Spirit life entered Him; God’s voice declared Him Son again (“Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee”); He then stripped Satan of the keys of death, hell, and the grave and led the righteous dead out. The physical resurrection is the outward evidence that the spiritual work in hell was completed.

Moore supplies pastoral precision on the relationship between payment and demonstration: the death (including the spiritual death and the work in hell) paid the price for sin; the resurrection proves that we are justified (Romans 4:25). Without that vindication the payment would not yet be shown to have secured justification.

8. The Logical and Legal Necessity — Summary

• Man’s real problem is spiritual → the real atonement must be spiritual.
• The real man is the spirit → the Substitute must die in spirit.
• Spiritual death is Satan’s nature → the Substitute must take that nature and then be reborn out of it.
• You cannot redeem spiritual death with physical death alone (Capps).
• Jesus could not have died physically until (or unless) He had first become sin in a nature-affecting way (Moore).
• Old Testament types (rod/serpent, brazen serpent) confirm the necessity (Capps).
• The death paid the price; the resurrection proves justification has been secured (Moore on Romans 4:25).
• The new birth of the believer is the direct counterpart and legal result of Jesus’ new birth in hell; the Church of the firstborn began there (Capps).
• Redemption is threefold (from poverty, sickness, and spiritual death). The spiritual dimension is the root that makes the others possible.

Supporting texts repeatedly cited: Isaiah 53:9–12; Hebrews 2:9, 14–15; Hebrews 9:26; Psalm 22; Psalm 88; Ephesians 2:1; Philippians 2:8; Matthew 12:40; Romans 4:25; Colossians 1:18; Acts 13:33; and the Pauline identification passages.

Conclusion of the Case

The Fall introduced spiritual death — separation from God plus Satan’s nature — into the human spirit. Physical death is only its consequence. A Substitute who dies only physically leaves the root problem untouched. Therefore Jesus, by the will of the Father, took the sin nature into His own spirit, experienced the rupture of fellowship, became the very thing that alienates man from God (contorted and misshaped spiritually by the weight of all sin), descended into hell under Satan’s dominion, suffered the full spiritual penalty, was justified and reborn in spirit as the firstborn from the dead in the gates of hell, and rose as the prototype of the new creation and the beginning of the Church of the firstborn.

The death paid the full price; the resurrection publicly and legally demonstrated that justification had been secured. Only then could believers be made the righteousness of God in Him and receive the same eternal life and nature that He recovered. This is the necessary outworking of a consistent substitutionary atonement that matches the nature of the Fall and makes the new birth — and the believer’s full authority — possible.