Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Does Salvation Precede Water Baptism?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Ever notice that it's often taught differently than what Jesus said, here? The usual teaching is "He that believeth and is saved, shall be water baptized..."

Just something to ponder... Does salvation precede water baptism? Or, does water baptism precede salvation?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Dake's notes, from Dake's Annotated Reference Bible on Mark 16:16:

a [He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned]
Two general results of preaching:
1. Saves the soul through faith (Rom. 10:9–10; Eph. 2:8–9; 1Jn. 1:7–9; 2Cor. 2:15–16; Rom. 1:16; 1Cor. 1:18–21; Jn. 3:16–20)
2. Damns the soul through unbelief (2Cor. 2:15–16; 4:4; Jn. 3:18–20; 8:24; 16:9; Rev. 21:8)

b [shall be saved]
This refers to final salvation, as “shall be damned” refers to final damnation. One is not damned until the end of a life of sowing to the flesh and until the end of the broad road (Mt. 7:13–14; Gal. 6:7–8; Rom. 6:23; 8:12–13). One can get right with God any time between now and final damnation (1Jn. 1:7; Jn. 3:16; Rom. 10:9–10). Our reaping life eternal is also at the end of a life of sowing to the Spirit (Gal. 6:7–8), at the end of the narrow road (Mt. 7:13–14), and at the end of our faith (Jn. 6:27, ; Mt. 19:29).

[bibleman]

Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Ever notice that it's often taught differently than what Jesus said, here? The usual teaching is "He that believeth and is saved, shall be water baptized..."

Just something to ponder... Does salvation precede water baptism? Or, does water baptism precede salvation?

Yes of course.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

In other words how that your life exhibits fruits of a repented and saved life. - THEN baptism.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The eunuch had to believe FIRST before water baptism.

[Hill Top]

Dake's notes, from Dake's Annotated Reference Bible on Mark 16:16:

a [He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned]
Two general results of preaching:
1. Saves the soul through faith (Rom. 10:9–10; Eph. 2:8–9; 1Jn. 1:7–9; 2Cor. 2:15–16; Rom. 1:16; 1Cor. 1:18–21; Jn. 3:16–20)
2. Damns the soul through unbelief (2Cor. 2:15–16; 4:4; Jn. 3:18–20; 8:24; 16:9; Rev. 21:8)

b [shall be saved]
This refers to final salvation, as “shall be damned” refers to final damnation. One is not damned until the end of a life of sowing to the flesh and until the end of the broad road (Mt. 7:13–14; Gal. 6:7–8; Rom. 6:23; 8:12–13). One can get right with God any time between now and final damnation (1Jn. 1:7; Jn. 3:16; Rom. 10:9–10). Our reaping life eternal is also at the end of a life of sowing to the Spirit (Gal. 6:7–8), at the end of the narrow road (Mt. 7:13–14), and at the end of our faith (Jn. 6:27, ; Mt. 19:29).

Good answer.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Dake's notes, from Dake's Annotated Reference Bible on Mark 16:16:

This refers to final salvation, as “shall be damned” refers to final damnation.

Good answer.

I thought you'd like it.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Ever notice that it's often taught differently than what Jesus said, here? The usual teaching is "He that believeth and is saved, shall be water baptized..."

Just something to ponder... Does salvation precede water baptism? Or, does water baptism precede salvation?

Yes of course.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

In other words how that your life exhibits fruits of a repented and saved life. - THEN baptism.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The eunuch had to believe FIRST before water baptism.

Right.
First. Believe (evidenced by bringing forth fruit worthy of repentance).
Second. Water Baptism.
Eventually. Saved (at final salvation).

[Hill Top]

Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Ever notice that it's often taught differently than what Jesus said, here? The usual teaching is "He that believeth and is saved, shall be water baptized..."

Just something to ponder... Does salvation precede water baptism? Or, does water baptism precede salvation?

Yes of course.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

In other words how that your life exhibits fruits of a repented and saved life. - THEN baptism.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The eunuch had to believe FIRST before water baptism.

Right.
First. Believe (evidenced by bringing forth fruit worthy of repentance).
Second. Water Baptism.
Eventually. Saved (at final salvation).

The post-belief evidence is also manifested with a true repentance from sin.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Ever notice that it's often taught differently than what Jesus said, here? The usual teaching is "He that believeth and is saved, shall be water baptized..."

Just something to ponder... Does salvation precede water baptism? Or, does water baptism precede salvation?

Yes of course.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

In other words how that your life exhibits fruits of a repented and saved life. - THEN baptism.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The eunuch had to believe FIRST before water baptism.

Right.
First. Believe (evidenced by bringing forth fruit worthy of repentance).
Second. Water Baptism.
Eventually. Saved (at final salvation).

The post-belief evidence is also manifested with a true repentance from sin.

Doesn't bringing forth fruit worthy of repentance cover manifesting true repentance from sin? If not, why not?

Some (the churches of Christ, for example) put forth a fuller program of salvation, as follows:

● Hear: Hear the word of God, which leads to faith.
● Believe: Believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior.
● Repent: Turn away from sins, which involves a change of mind and action.
● Confess: Publicly confess your faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
● Be Baptized: Be baptized by immersion for the forgiveness of sins and to be placed into Christ.
● Be Faithful: Live a faithful life unto death to continue in the salvation that was initiated.

Where does their program fall short, if at all?

In any case, Jesus definitely seems to put belief before baptism and both belief and baptism before salvation.

Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

[Hill Top]

Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Ever notice that it's often taught differently than what Jesus said, here? The usual teaching is "He that believeth and is saved, shall be water baptized..."

Just something to ponder... Does salvation precede water baptism? Or, does water baptism precede salvation?

Yes of course.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
In other words how that your life exhibits fruits of a repented and saved life. - THEN baptism.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
The eunuch had to believe FIRST before water baptism.

Right.
First. Believe (evidenced by bringing forth fruit worthy of repentance).
Second. Water Baptism.
Eventually. Saved (at final salvation).

The post-belief evidence is also manifested with a true repentance from sin.

Doesn't bringing forth fruit worthy of repentance cover manifesting true repentance from sin? If not, why not?

Sure it does, if that fruit is a life without sin.

Some (the churches of Christ, for example) put forth a fuller program of salvation, as follows:
● Hear: Hear the word of God, which leads to faith.
● Believe: Believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior.
● Repent: Turn away from sins, which involves a change of mind and action.
● Confess: Publicly confess your faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
● Be Baptized: Be baptized by immersion for the forgiveness of sins and to be placed into Christ.
● Be Faithful: Live a faithful life unto death to continue in the salvation that was initiated.
Where does their program fall short, if at all?

I feel that their list is very complete.
I would have added "and destroy the old man, ect"... to their Be Baptized: results.

In any case, Jesus definitely seems to put belief before baptism and both belief and baptism before salvation.
Mark 16:16 King James Version
He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Seeing as belief and acting on that belief can be mere minutes, making a big deal about which comes first is pointless.
I believed and was baptized, in about fifteen minutes.
Few will get baptized without believing what it is for.

And as mentioned earlier, salvation won't be manifested until one is either raised from the dead to eternal life, or to eternal damnation.