Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Sorcerer's Sin

[Spiritblade Disciple]

As John wrote in 1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin..."
The standard for sin need not be lowered for those who love God with all their heart, soul, strength, and might;...and their neighbors as themselves.

Some observations...
1. In some passages where those requirements are listed, all the mind is also included in the requirements.
2. Peter told Simon it was because of his thinking was in error.
3. There's a passage that says that even the thought of foolishness is sin.

Some questions:
1. Are you saying 100% of the time, a person must love God with all their heart, mind, soul, strength, and might to 100% of ideal human capacity and their neighbor as themself prior to receiving the Holy Ghost? That such is possible prior to receiving the Spirit?
2. How does one know if they've received the Spirit? How do you know that you have received the Spirit?

[Hill Top]

As John wrote in 1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin..."
The standard for sin need not be lowered for those who love God with all their heart, soul, strength, and might;...and their neighbors as themselves.

Some observations...
1. In some passages where those requirements are listed, all the mind is also included in the requirements.
2. Peter told Simon it was because of his thinking was in error.
3. There's a passage that says that even the thought of foolishness is sin.

The "standard" I referred to above, is the short version of all your observations.
But to avoid making it look like Law keeping, with its hundreds of precepts; love is the standard we have been enabled to follow/exhibit.

Some questions:
1. Are you saying 100% of the time, a person must love God with all their heart, mind, soul, strength, and might to 100% of ideal human capacity and their neighbor as themself prior to receiving the Holy Ghost? That such is possible prior to receiving the Spirit?

Those things should be in the heart of everyone who desires to know God...don't you think ?
Reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost enables that love to triumph in us, and through us.

2. How does one know if they've received the Spirit? How do you know that you have received the Spirit?

You will receive the gift of tongues.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Some observations...
1. In some passages where those requirements are listed, all the mind is also included in the requirements.
2. Peter told Simon it was because of his thinking was in error.
3. There's a passage that says that even the thought of foolishness is sin.

The "standard" I referred to above, is the short version of all your observations.
But to avoid making it look like Law keeping, with its hundreds of precepts; love is the standard we have been enabled to follow/exhibit.

Right. Just pointing out that loving with all the mind (100% mental capacity) at all times is part of this requirement.
Especially hard since virtually no human being utilizes 100% of their mental capacity for anything at any time, let alone all the time.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Some questions:
1. Are you saying 100% of the time, a person must love God with all their heart, mind, soul, strength, and might to 100% of ideal human capacity and their neighbor as themself prior to receiving the Holy Ghost? That such is possible prior to receiving the Spirit?

Those things should be in the heart of everyone who desires to know God...don't you think ?

Agreed. Those things should be the goal. But, virtually no one consistently does them at all times to 100% of their capacity.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost enables that love to triumph in us, and through us.

Aren't you claiming that a person has to do this before they can receive the Holy Ghost?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I don't think that anyone who receives the gift of the Holy Ghost ever sins again.
The sin is the proof of the fact they are not reborn of God's seed, (1 John 3:9), and the Holy Spirit is in no (NT) man born of Adam.
Repentance, from sin, is a necessity to receive the gift in the first place. (Acts 2:38)

2. How does one know if they've received the Spirit? How do you know that you have received the Spirit?

You will receive the gift of tongues.

Virtually all individuals that have received the gift of tongues have sinned or will sin after speaking in tongues.
How do you justify the belief that those that receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (as evidenced by the gift of tongues) never sin again? Please, consider St. Peter's error as recorded in Galatians 2:11-21.

[Hill Top]

Some observations...
1. In some passages where those requirements are listed, all the mind is also included in the requirements.
2. Peter told Simon it was because of his thinking was in error.
3. There's a passage that says that even the thought of foolishness is sin.

The "standard" I referred to above, is the short version of all your observations.
But to avoid making it look like Law keeping, with its hundreds of precepts; love is the standard we have been enabled to follow/exhibit.

Right. Just pointing out that loving with all the mind (100% mental capacity) at all times is part of this requirement.
Especially hard since virtually no human being utilizes 100% of their mental capacity for anything at any time, let alone all the time.

Man uses his mind every time he makes a choice.
All sins are choices.

[Hill Top]

Some questions:
1. Are you saying 100% of the time, a person must love God with all their heart, mind, soul, strength, and might to 100% of ideal human capacity and their neighbor as themself prior to receiving the Holy Ghost? That such is possible prior to receiving the Spirit?

Those things should be in the heart of everyone who desires to know God...don't you think ?

Agreed. Those things should be the goal. But, virtually no one consistently does them at all times to 100% of their capacity.

Everyone who has been reborn of God's seed, does what God wants them to do 100% of the time.
It is written..." Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)
Actions, whether good or bad, are obedience to one's master.

[Hill Top]

Reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost enables that love to triumph in us, and through us.

Aren't you claiming that a person has to do this before they can receive the Holy Ghost?

The intention to do so, occurs before one receives the gift that enables the repentant to do so.

[Hill Top]

I don't think that anyone who receives the gift of the Holy Ghost ever sins again.
The sin is the proof of the fact they are not reborn of God's seed, (1 John 3:9), and the Holy Spirit is in no (NT) man born of Adam.
Repentance, from sin, is a necessity to receive the gift in the first place. (Acts 2:38)

2. How does one know if they've received the Spirit? How do you know that you have received the Spirit?

You will receive the gift of tongues.

Virtually all individuals that have received the gift of tongues have sinned or will sin after speaking in tongues.

I'ld like to know the source of that unbiblical information.

How do you justify the belief that those that receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (as evidenced by the gift of tongues) never sin again? Please, consider St. Peter's error as recorded in Galatians 2:11-21.

Peter's "error" wasn't sin...it was a missed opportunity to make visiting Jews see that they were no better/different than any reborn Gentile.