Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Comparative Soteriology: Stanley, Copeland, Hagin, & Dake

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I asked Grok to compare and contrast the soteriologies of Charles Stanley, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth E. Hagin, and Finis Dake with one another.

I also asked Grok to rely on direct quotes from Dake, where possible, in an attempt to avoid utilizing faulty sources for Dake's teachings.

It's possible that Grok made some errors concerning the beliefs of each person.

Soteriology Comparison: Charles Stanley, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth E. Hagin, and Finis Dake

To address the soteriology of Finis Dake while relying solely on his direct quotes, I will compare and contrast his views with those of Charles Stanley, Kenneth Copeland, and Kenneth E. Hagin, using Dake’s writings, primarily from The Dake Annotated Reference Bible. For Stanley, Copeland, and Hagin, I will maintain rigorous analysis based on their known teachings. The focus is on the nature of salvation, the role of faith and works, the atonement, and assurance of salvation.

1. Charles Stanley

• Theological Background: Southern Baptist pastor, conservative evangelical, emphasizing salvation by grace through faith alone.
• Nature of Salvation: Salvation is a gift of God’s grace, received through faith in Christ’s atoning death and resurrection, involving justification, sanctification, and glorification. Repentance and personal trust in Christ are essential.
• Role of Faith and Works: Salvation is by faith alone (sola fide).

  “Salvation is not something you achieve; it’s something you receive.”

  Good works are evidence, not a condition, of salvation.
• Atonement: Penal substitutionary atonement, where Christ’s death fully paid the penalty for sin.

  “The cross is where Jesus paid the price for our sins once and for all.”

• Assurance of Salvation: Eternal security:

  “Once you are saved, you are always saved, because salvation is God’s work, not ours.”

  Grounded in the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14).

2. Kenneth Copeland

• Theological Background: Word of Faith leader, influenced by Hagin and E.W. Kenyon, incorporating prosperity and metaphysical elements.
• Nature of Salvation: Salvation includes spiritual redemption, physical healing, and material prosperity, restoring believers’ dominion.

  “Salvation is a total package—spirit, soul, and body—because Jesus paid for it all.”

• Role of Faith and Works: Salvation is accessed through “positive confession,” where faith is a force activated by speaking God’s promises.

  “Your words create your reality. Speak faith, and you’ll have what you say.”

  Works reflect faith but do not earn salvation.
• Atonement: Teaches the “Jesus Died Spiritually” (JDS) doctrine:

  “Jesus went to hell, took on Satan’s nature, and was born again in hell to defeat the devil.”

  Christ’s physical death was insufficient without spiritual suffering.
• Assurance of Salvation: Assurance depends on maintaining positive confessions.

  “Keep speaking God’s Word, and your salvation and blessings are secure,”

  suggesting instability if faith wavers, though not explicitly teaching loss of salvation.

3. Kenneth E. Hagin

• Theological Background: Founder of the Word of Faith movement, influenced by E.W. Kenyon, blending Pentecostalism with metaphysical concepts.
• Nature of Salvation: Salvation includes spiritual rebirth, healing, and prosperity.

  “Salvation is not just going to heaven; it’s healing, deliverance, and prosperity here and now.”

• Role of Faith and Works: Faith is a spiritual law activated by positive confession.

  “Say it, believe it, and receive it. That’s how faith works.”

  Works demonstrate faith but are not meritorious for salvation’s initiation.
• Atonement: Teaches JDS:

  “Jesus died spiritually, became sin, and was born again in hell to break Satan’s power.”

  Contrasts with traditional views of Christ’s physical death as sufficient.
• Assurance of Salvation: Assurance relies on consistent faith confessions.

  “Your confession determines your possession,”

  implying lapses in confession could affect salvation’s benefits, though not necessarily its loss.

4. Finis Dake

• Theological Background: Pentecostal minister, author of The Dake Annotated Reference Bible, known for hyperliteral interpretations and some unorthodox views.
• Nature of Salvation:

  “Salvation is the act of God whereby man is redeemed from sin and its consequences, restored to fellowship with God, and made a partaker of the divine nature”

  (note on John 3:16). Includes forgiveness and restoration, with potential for health and prosperity.
• Role of Faith and Works:

  “Salvation is by grace through faith, but faith without works is dead, and no man can be saved who does not obey God”

  (note on James 2:17).

  “Continued obedience to the gospel is necessary to retain justification”

  (note on Romans 6:16), making works a condition for maintaining salvation.
• Atonement:

  “Christ died for our sins, making an atonement by His own blood to reconcile man to God”

  (note on Isaiah 53:5). However,

  “Christ’s soul was made an offering for sin”

  (note on Isaiah 53:10), introduces ambiguity, potentially aligning with JDS-like ideas without explicit endorsement.
• Assurance of Salvation: Rejects eternal security:

  “No man can be saved who goes back into sin and dies in it, for the wages of sin is death”

  (note on Romans 6:23).

  “Men can fall from grace and be lost if they sin and do not repent”

  (note on Galatians 5:4), emphasizing conditional salvation.

Comparison and Contrast
Similarities

• Christ-Centered Salvation: All affirm salvation through Christ’s work. Dake:

  “Salvation is through Christ alone”

  (note on Acts 4:12), aligns with Stanley’s “Christ paid the price,” Copeland’s atonement focus, and Hagin’s emphasis.
• Role of Faith: Faith is central. Dake’s

  “Salvation is by grace through faith”

  (note on Ephesians 2:8) parallels Stanley’s sola fide, while Copeland and Hagin’s confessions echo Dake’s active faith, though tied to obedience.
• Scriptural Foundation: Each claims a biblical basis, though interpreted differently.

Differences

• Nature of Salvation:
  • Stanley: Spiritual redemption, justification, sanctification, glorification.
  • Copeland/Hagin: Spiritual, physical, and material restoration through confessions.
  • Dake:

    “Redeemed from sin and its consequences, restored to fellowship with God”

    (note on John 3:16), with some prosperity elements.
• Role of Faith and Works:
  • Stanley: Faith alone, works as fruit.
  • Copeland/Hagin: Faith as a force via confession, works as evidence.
  • Dake:

    “Faith without works is dead”

    (note on James 2:17);

    “Continued obedience to the gospel is necessary”

    (note on Romans 6:16).
• Atonement:
  • Stanley: Penal substitution, Christ’s death sufficient.
  • Copeland/Hagin: JDS, emphasizing spiritual death in hell.
  • Dake:

    “Christ died for our sins, making an atonement by His own blood”

    (note on Isaiah 53:5), but

    “Christ’s soul was made an offering”

    (note on Isaiah 53:10) suggests ambiguity.
• Assurance of Salvation:
  • Stanley: Eternal security.
  • Copeland/Hagin: Assurance tied to confessions, potentially unstable.
  • Dake:

    “Men can fall from grace and be lost if they sin and do not repent”

    (note on Galatians 5:4).

Critical Analysis

• Stanley: Aligns with Protestant orthodoxy, emphasizing grace and eternal security.
• Copeland/Hagin: Word of Faith soteriology, with JDS and prosperity elements, deviates from orthodoxy, prioritizing human agency.
• Dake: Teaches salvation by grace but requires obedience:

  “Continued obedience to the gospel is necessary to retain justification”

  (note on Romans 6:16). Rejects eternal security:

  “Men can fall from grace”

  (note on Galatians 5:4). Atonement view (

  “Christ’s soul was made an offering”

  , note on Isaiah 53:10) suggests possible Word of Faith influence, though less extreme.

Conclusion
Charles Stanley’s soteriology is orthodox evangelical, emphasizing faith alone and eternal security. Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth E. Hagin share a Word of Faith perspective, viewing salvation as holistic through positive confession and JDS, diverging from traditional Christianity. Finis Dake, per his quotes, teaches salvation by grace through faith but requires ongoing obedience to maintain it, rejecting eternal security. His atonement view aligns with penal substitution but includes ambiguities resonating with Word of Faith. The primary divide is Stanley’s orthodoxy versus the unorthodox, performance-oriented soteriologies of Copeland, Hagin, and Dake, with Dake’s works-based emphasis distinguishing him.

[Hill Top]

I asked Grok to compare and contrast the soteriologies of Charles Stanley, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth E. Hagin, and Finis Dake with one another.

I also asked Grok to rely on direct quotes from Dake, where possible, in an attempt to avoid utilizing faulty sources for Dake's teachings.

It's possible that Grok made some errors concerning the beliefs of each person.

Soteriology Comparison: Charles Stanley, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth E. Hagin, and Finis Dake

To address the soteriology of Finis Dake while relying solely on his direct quotes, I will compare and contrast his views with those of Charles Stanley, Kenneth Copeland, and Kenneth E. Hagin, using Dake’s writings, primarily from The Dake Annotated Reference Bible. For Stanley, Copeland, and Hagin, I will maintain rigorous analysis based on their known teachings. The focus is on the nature of salvation, the role of faith and works, the atonement, and assurance of salvation.

1. Charles Stanley

• Theological Background: Southern Baptist pastor, conservative evangelical, emphasizing salvation by grace through faith alone.
• Nature of Salvation: Salvation is a gift of God’s grace, received through faith in Christ’s atoning death and resurrection, involving justification, sanctification, and glorification. Repentance and personal trust in Christ are essential.
• Role of Faith and Works: Salvation is by faith alone (sola fide).

  “Salvation is not something you achieve; it’s something you receive.”

  Good works are evidence, not a condition, of salvation.
• Atonement: Penal substitutionary atonement, where Christ’s death fully paid the penalty for sin.

  “The cross is where Jesus paid the price for our sins once and for all.”

• Assurance of Salvation: Eternal security:

  “Once you are saved, you are always saved, because salvation is God’s work, not ours.”

  Grounded in the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14).

2. Kenneth Copeland

• Theological Background: Word of Faith leader, influenced by Hagin and E.W. Kenyon, incorporating prosperity and metaphysical elements.
• Nature of Salvation: Salvation includes spiritual redemption, physical healing, and material prosperity, restoring believers’ dominion.

  “Salvation is a total package—spirit, soul, and body—because Jesus paid for it all.”

• Role of Faith and Works: Salvation is accessed through “positive confession,” where faith is a force activated by speaking God’s promises.

  “Your words create your reality. Speak faith, and you’ll have what you say.”

  Works reflect faith but do not earn salvation.
• Atonement: Teaches the “Jesus Died Spiritually” (JDS) doctrine:

  “Jesus went to hell, took on Satan’s nature, and was born again in hell to defeat the devil.”

  Christ’s physical death was insufficient without spiritual suffering.
• Assurance of Salvation: Assurance depends on maintaining positive confessions.

  “Keep speaking God’s Word, and your salvation and blessings are secure,”

  suggesting instability if faith wavers, though not explicitly teaching loss of salvation.

3. Kenneth E. Hagin

• Theological Background: Founder of the Word of Faith movement, influenced by E.W. Kenyon, blending Pentecostalism with metaphysical concepts.
• Nature of Salvation: Salvation includes spiritual rebirth, healing, and prosperity.

  “Salvation is not just going to heaven; it’s healing, deliverance, and prosperity here and now.”

• Role of Faith and Works: Faith is a spiritual law activated by positive confession.

  “Say it, believe it, and receive it. That’s how faith works.”

  Works demonstrate faith but are not meritorious for salvation’s initiation.
• Atonement: Teaches JDS:

  “Jesus died spiritually, became sin, and was born again in hell to break Satan’s power.”

  Contrasts with traditional views of Christ’s physical death as sufficient.
• Assurance of Salvation: Assurance relies on consistent faith confessions.

  “Your confession determines your possession,”

  implying lapses in confession could affect salvation’s benefits, though not necessarily its loss.

4. Finis Dake

• Theological Background: Pentecostal minister, author of The Dake Annotated Reference Bible, known for hyperliteral interpretations and some unorthodox views.
• Nature of Salvation:

  “Salvation is the act of God whereby man is redeemed from sin and its consequences, restored to fellowship with God, and made a partaker of the divine nature”

  (note on John 3:16). Includes forgiveness and restoration, with potential for health and prosperity.
• Role of Faith and Works:

  “Salvation is by grace through faith, but faith without works is dead, and no man can be saved who does not obey God”

  (note on James 2:17).

  “Continued obedience to the gospel is necessary to retain justification”

  (note on Romans 6:16), making works a condition for maintaining salvation.
• Atonement:

  “Christ died for our sins, making an atonement by His own blood to reconcile man to God”

  (note on Isaiah 53:5). However,

  “Christ’s soul was made an offering for sin”

  (note on Isaiah 53:10), introduces ambiguity, potentially aligning with JDS-like ideas without explicit endorsement.
• Assurance of Salvation: Rejects eternal security:

  “No man can be saved who goes back into sin and dies in it, for the wages of sin is death”

  (note on Romans 6:23).

  “Men can fall from grace and be lost if they sin and do not repent”

  (note on Galatians 5:4), emphasizing conditional salvation.

Comparison and Contrast
Similarities

• Christ-Centered Salvation: All affirm salvation through Christ’s work. Dake:

  “Salvation is through Christ alone”

  (note on Acts 4:12), aligns with Stanley’s “Christ paid the price,” Copeland’s atonement focus, and Hagin’s emphasis.
• Role of Faith: Faith is central. Dake’s

  “Salvation is by grace through faith”

  (note on Ephesians 2:8) parallels Stanley’s sola fide, while Copeland and Hagin’s confessions echo Dake’s active faith, though tied to obedience.
• Scriptural Foundation: Each claims a biblical basis, though interpreted differently.

Differences

• Nature of Salvation:
  • Stanley: Spiritual redemption, justification, sanctification, glorification.
  • Copeland/Hagin: Spiritual, physical, and material restoration through confessions.
  • Dake:

    “Redeemed from sin and its consequences, restored to fellowship with God”

    (note on John 3:16), with some prosperity elements.
• Role of Faith and Works:
  • Stanley: Faith alone, works as fruit.
  • Copeland/Hagin: Faith as a force via confession, works as evidence.
  • Dake:

    “Faith without works is dead”

    (note on James 2:17);

    “Continued obedience to the gospel is necessary”

    (note on Romans 6:16).
• Atonement:
  • Stanley: Penal substitution, Christ’s death sufficient.
  • Copeland/Hagin: JDS, emphasizing spiritual death in hell.
  • Dake:

    “Christ died for our sins, making an atonement by His own blood”

    (note on Isaiah 53:5), but

    “Christ’s soul was made an offering”

    (note on Isaiah 53:10) suggests ambiguity.
• Assurance of Salvation:
  • Stanley: Eternal security.
  • Copeland/Hagin: Assurance tied to confessions, potentially unstable.
  • Dake:

    “Men can fall from grace and be lost if they sin and do not repent”

    (note on Galatians 5:4).

Critical Analysis

• Stanley: Aligns with Protestant orthodoxy, emphasizing grace and eternal security.
• Copeland/Hagin: Word of Faith soteriology, with JDS and prosperity elements, deviates from orthodoxy, prioritizing human agency.
• Dake: Teaches salvation by grace but requires obedience:

  “Continued obedience to the gospel is necessary to retain justification”

  (note on Romans 6:16). Rejects eternal security:

  “Men can fall from grace”

  (note on Galatians 5:4). Atonement view (

  “Christ’s soul was made an offering”

  , note on Isaiah 53:10) suggests possible Word of Faith influence, though less extreme.

Conclusion
Charles Stanley’s soteriology is orthodox evangelical, emphasizing faith alone and eternal security. Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth E. Hagin share a Word of Faith perspective, viewing salvation as holistic through positive confession and JDS, diverging from traditional Christianity. Finis Dake, per his quotes, teaches salvation by grace through faith but requires ongoing obedience to maintain it, rejecting eternal security. His atonement view aligns with penal substitution but includes ambiguities resonating with Word of Faith. The primary divide is Stanley’s orthodoxy versus the unorthodox, performance-oriented soteriologies of Copeland, Hagin, and Dake, with Dake’s works-based emphasis distinguishing him.

Thanks for that, but what is "JDS" ?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

JDS is short for the "Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine.

JDS teaches that “Jesus died spiritually, became sin, and was born again in hell to break Satan’s power.”

[Hill Top]

JDS is short for the "Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine.

JDS teaches that “Jesus died spiritually, became sin, and was born again in hell to break Satan’s power.”

Who espouses such an oddity ?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

JDS is short for the "Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine.

JDS teaches that “Jesus died spiritually, became sin, and was born again in hell to break Satan’s power.”

Who espouses such an oddity ?

Depending on who you ask, the answer differs. Some say, only heretics. Others say respected Christians of various denominations throughout history. Others say the apostle, Peter, preached it and quoted King David's prophecy of it. Some say Isaiah prophesied it.

I probably won't be able to gather the scriptures that I remember being utilized to support the teaching into a coherent list until next week, at the earliest.

But, you might start by looking for Peter quoting David about His (Jesus') soul not being left in Hell.

[Hill Top]

JDS is short for the "Jesus Died Spiritually" doctrine.

JDS teaches that “Jesus died spiritually, became sin, and was born again in hell to break Satan’s power.”

Who espouses such an oddity ?

Depending on who you ask, the answer differs. Some say, only heretics. Others say respected Christians of various denominations throughout history. Others say the apostle, Peter, preached it and quoted King David's prophecy of it. Some say Isaiah prophesied it.

I probably won't be able to gather the scriptures that I remember being utilized to support the teaching into a coherent list until next week, at the earliest.

But, you might start by looking for Peter quoting David about His (Jesus') soul not being left in Hell.

I have to believe that the 'hell' being referred to is really just an allusion to "grave".
The Son of God would never be forced into an environment reserved for the wicked, who had already wasted their chance at redemption...(if the hell being referenced were the place of fire and brimstone written of by Dante and others since him.)

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I have to believe that the 'hell' being referred to is really just an allusion to "grave".
The Son of God would never be forced into an environment reserved for the wicked, who had already wasted their chance at redemption...(if the hell being referenced were the place of fire and brimstone written of by Dante and others since him.)

There would probably be a lot of folks that would agree with you on that take, Hill Top.

[Hill Top]

I have to believe that the 'hell' being referred to is really just an allusion to "grave".
The Son of God would never be forced into an environment reserved for the wicked, who had already wasted their chance at redemption...(if the hell being referenced were the place of fire and brimstone written of by Dante and others since him.)

There would probably be a lot of folks that would agree with you on that take, Hill Top.

Some use a misinterpretation of 1 Peter 3:19's reference to "prison"...equating prison to the lake of fire reserved for the lost.
They say Jesus went to "hell" to preach there to those long gone already.
But that is not what those 1 Peter 3 verses say.
It says that by the same Spirit that in which Jesus came, the folks of old received the message of redemption.
The subject is "the Spirit"...not Jesus.
Those in "prison-grave" are those who refused the message, centuries beforehand. (1 Peter 1:11-12)

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I have to believe that the 'hell' being referred to is really just an allusion to "grave".
The Son of God would never be forced into an environment reserved for the wicked, who had already wasted their chance at redemption...(if the hell being referenced were the place of fire and brimstone written of by Dante and others since him.)

There would probably be a lot of folks that would agree with you on that take, Hill Top.

Some use a misinterpretation of 1 Peter 3:19's reference to "prison"...equating prison to the lake of fire reserved for the lost.
They say Jesus went to "hell" to preach there to those long gone already.
But that is not what those 1 Peter 3 verses say.
It says that by the same Spirit that in which Jesus came, the folks of old received the message of redemption.
The subject is "the Spirit"...not Jesus.
Those in "prison-grave" are those who refused the message, centuries beforehand. (1 Peter 1:11-12)

● I agree that concluding the prison of 1st Peter 3:19 to the Lake of Fire is an error.

● I also think that concluding that the Hell spoken of by Peter (in Acts 2) is the grave is also an error. Is the Greek word Hades ever accurately translated as "grave" in the New Testament of the King James Bible?

● Some proponents of the "Jesus Died Spiritually" position would say that the New American Standard Bible (1995) is more accurate on the relevant portion of 1st Peter 3:

1 Peter 3:18-20 NASB1995

• [18] For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
• [19] in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
• [20] who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
• https://bible.com/bible/100/1pe.3.18-20.NASB1995

Such proponents would see the "made alive in the spirit" and the subsequent preaching to the imprisoned spirits as happening between His death and resurrection.

[Hill Top]

I have to believe that the 'hell' being referred to is really just an allusion to "grave".
The Son of God would never be forced into an environment reserved for the wicked, who had already wasted their chance at redemption...(if the hell being referenced were the place of fire and brimstone written of by Dante and others since him.)

There would probably be a lot of folks that would agree with you on that take, Hill Top.

Some use a misinterpretation of 1 Peter 3:19's reference to "prison"...equating prison to the lake of fire reserved for the lost.
They say Jesus went to "hell" to preach there to those long gone already.
But that is not what those 1 Peter 3 verses say.
It says that by the same Spirit that in which Jesus came, the folks of old received the message of redemption.
The subject is "the Spirit"...not Jesus.
Those in "prison-grave" are those who refused the message, centuries beforehand. (1 Peter 1:11-12)

● I agree that concluding the prison of 1st Peter 3:19 to the Lake of Fire is an error.

● I also think that concluding that the Hell spoken of by Peter (in Acts 2) is the grave is also an error. Is the Greek word Hades ever accurately translated as "grave" in the New Testament of the King James Bible?

● Some proponents of the "Jesus Died Spiritually" position would say that the New American Standard Bible (1995) is more accurate on the relevant portion of 1st Peter 3:

1 Peter 3:18-20 NASB1995

• [18] For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
• [19] in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
• [20] who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
• https://bible.com/bible/100/1pe.3.18-20.NASB1995

Such proponents would see the "made alive in the spirit" and the subsequent preaching to the imprisoned spirits as happening between His death and resurrection.

What the NASB calls "in the Spirit", the KJV says is "by the Spirit".
"... being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
The subject is the Spirit, by which Jesus was both made alive, and by which He had preached through the prophets to the long dead, in the times of, among others, Moses.
1 Peter 1:10-12, and 1 Peter 3:20 refer to that past age.