Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ KEEP REPENTING OR ETERNAL SECURITY?

[luchnia]

Grandfather, you bring up an interesting point. My guess is that the Law God gave the Jews was only for the Jews and if they kept the Law they would be blessed in the city, blessed in the field as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and included good health. When God turned to the Gentiles he have the whole world a better covenant that included healing and offered sonship and and the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us. What say you?

Until women quit having pain in childbirth there is evidence that mankind still is subject to the consequences of the fall.

Gen 3:16 -- To the woman he said, “... in pain you shall bring forth children."

One might wonder what different things are consequences of the fall. Some might lump things that belong to satan that man brings upon himself into the fall, yet maybe they don't all belong there? Would some lump sickness in there with the fall instead of leaving it with its originator?

[bibleman]

Romans 14:23 "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
The Lord commanded through the prophet Isaiah...
Isaiah 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
David told us...
Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me
Better tell Jesus, whose sweat fell like droplets of blood.

No doubt about it my friend you are in sin when you are scared.

You being scared can only happen because you are not sure of the outcome. If you knew that Jesus would see you through there would be no reason to be afraid.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

You are fearing the possible evil outcome that is why you are scared.

So your claim to perfection has now been disproved.

You should repent for your doubts and unbelief and ask the Lord to help you in the area of trusting Him.

[Hill Top]

Bibleman asked HillTop, Let me ask you.
Do you believe that physical healing is a benefit from the Lord?
Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

HillTop replied, Yes, when it is His will.

HT, Why wouldn't it be God's will when He took our sicknesses and diseases and by His stripes we were healed at Calvary? The chastisement of our peace was upon Jesus. We were healed, delivered, made whole, in a sound condition and set free at Calvary. My Bible says Satan comes to kill, heal and destroy but Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly? Why would God make us sick when He gave us the full armor of God including the shield of faith that repels all the fiery darts of the enemy? We resist the Devil and he flees from us. He is under our feet because he is under Jesus' feet and we are in Him. We lay hands on the sick and they are healed. What kind of a father would give sickness to his children? Sickness is not one of God's tools for teaching us, we have the Holy Spirit teaching and guiding us. What about the exceedingly and precious promises God has given his children? Jesus took care of everything for us at Calvary. There won't be a second Calvary to save His children in the future. You don't have to die to be healed. We have the mind of Christ and through faith and patience we inherit the promises in this life time. HE DIED FOR US and provides ALL our needs according to His riches in glory. HillTop I think it's time for you to invest in a Dake Bible. PS: What so ever you desire when you pray, believe you receive it and you shall have have them (including good health). If you need a few hundred more scriptures along this line you know where to look.

What if it isn't the Lord's will that one is made healthy?
What if the illness leads one to a point where they are given an opportunity to witness to others?
Or to learn some special understanding?
Or a greater healing later?

Even illness can be used to glorify God.

Interesting view. I have never once saw an illness glorify God, nor have found any scripture that shows an illness bringing glory to God.

Doesn't our rejoicing glorify God?
It is written..."If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities." (2 Cor 11:30)
And..."Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities." (2 Cor 12:5)
And..." And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Cor 12:9-10)

[Hill Top]

Romans 14:23 "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
The Lord commanded through the prophet Isaiah...
Isaiah 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
David told us...
Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me
Better tell Jesus, whose sweat fell like droplets of blood.

No doubt about it my friend you are in sin when you are scared.

You being scared can only happen because you are not sure of the outcome. If you knew that Jesus would see you through there would be no reason to be afraid.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

You are fearing the possible evil outcome that is why you are scared.

So your claim to perfection has now been disproved.

You should repent for your doubts and unbelief and ask the Lord to help you in the area of trusting Him.

According to your POV, Jesus wasn't perfect either.
It is written..."Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;" (Heb 5:7)

[Hill Top]

O.K. let's weigh the arguments for both sides. IMO the scriptures for God wanting us healthy far outweigh the ones that obliquely make the case that God wants His children to be sick. But EVEN IF both sides were equal why would one argue for being sick?? This speaks of mental illness.

I don't think there are any scriptures where God WANTS us sick.
But sometimes sickness can be used for the glory of God by how we endure the sickness, or any other needs.

[luchnia]

Romans 14:23 "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
The Lord commanded through the prophet Isaiah...
Isaiah 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
David told us...
Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me
Better tell Jesus, whose sweat fell like droplets of blood.

No doubt about it my friend you are in sin when you are scared.

You being scared can only happen because you are not sure of the outcome. If you knew that Jesus would see you through there would be no reason to be afraid.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

You are fearing the possible evil outcome that is why you are scared.

So your claim to perfection has now been disproved.

You should repent for your doubts and unbelief and ask the Lord to help you in the area of trusting Him.

Yep, reminds me of the man whom ask Jesus and Jesus told him if only he believed and yet the man said he believed but also said "...help thou mine unbelief...".

[luchnia]

Bibleman asked HillTop, Let me ask you.
Do you believe that physical healing is a benefit from the Lord?
Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

HillTop replied, Yes, when it is His will.

HT, Why wouldn't it be God's will when He took our sicknesses and diseases and by His stripes we were healed at Calvary? The chastisement of our peace was upon Jesus. We were healed, delivered, made whole, in a sound condition and set free at Calvary. My Bible says Satan comes to kill, heal and destroy but Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly? Why would God make us sick when He gave us the full armor of God including the shield of faith that repels all the fiery darts of the enemy? We resist the Devil and he flees from us. He is under our feet because he is under Jesus' feet and we are in Him. We lay hands on the sick and they are healed. What kind of a father would give sickness to his children? Sickness is not one of God's tools for teaching us, we have the Holy Spirit teaching and guiding us. What about the exceedingly and precious promises God has given his children? Jesus took care of everything for us at Calvary. There won't be a second Calvary to save His children in the future. You don't have to die to be healed. We have the mind of Christ and through faith and patience we inherit the promises in this life time. HE DIED FOR US and provides ALL our needs according to His riches in glory. HillTop I think it's time for you to invest in a Dake Bible. PS: What so ever you desire when you pray, believe you receive it and you shall have have them (including good health). If you need a few hundred more scriptures along this line you know where to look.

What if it isn't the Lord's will that one is made healthy?
What if the illness leads one to a point where they are given an opportunity to witness to others?
Or to learn some special understanding?
Or a greater healing later?

Even illness can be used to glorify God.

Interesting view. I have never once saw an illness glorify God, nor have found any scripture that shows an illness bringing glory to God.

Doesn't our rejoicing glorify God?
It is written..."If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities." (2 Cor 11:30)
And..."Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities." (2 Cor 12:5)
And..." And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Cor 12:9-10)

Rejoicing because you are sick? You might ask God to keep you sick and also fill you with so much disease since that brings Him glory.

What sickness and diseases did Paul have? Are you one of the folks that believe Paul was blind and had some type of disease?

[bibleman]

Romans 14:23 "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
The Lord commanded through the prophet Isaiah...
Isaiah 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
David told us...
Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me
Better tell Jesus, whose sweat fell like droplets of blood.

No doubt about it my friend you are in sin when you are scared.

You being scared can only happen because you are not sure of the outcome. If you knew that Jesus would see you through there would be no reason to be afraid.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

You are fearing the possible evil outcome that is why you are scared.

So your claim to perfection has now been disproved.

You should repent for your doubts and unbelief and ask the Lord to help you in the area of trusting Him.

Yep, reminds me of the man whom ask Jesus and Jesus told him if only he believed and yet the man said he believed but also said "...help thou mine unbelief...".

Yes - that is an excellent point. It would only be our pride that would stop us from facing the truth.

[Hill Top]

Dolph said, O.K. let's weigh the arguments for both sides. IMO the scriptures for God wanting us healthy far outweigh the ones that obliquely make the case that God wants His children to be sick. But EVEN IF both sides were equal why would one argue for being sick?? This speaks of mental illness.

HT replied, I don't think there are any scriptures where God WANTS us sick.
But sometimes sickness can be used for the glory of God by how we endure the sickness, or any other needs.

A large part of the Pentecostal Movement that has swept the world the past 120 years was healing but most of the "Christian" world rejected it with your argument that God can sometimes use sickness for His glory, which is true but let's not forget that God's healing will bring more glory to God. Meanwhile most of the Church relies on doctors and never makes an effort to stand on the promises of God. What is really happening? They hear the word (seed) from God and Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts or affliction or persecution arises for the word sake and they are immediately offended or the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and lusts of other things enter and choke the word.

Bottom line, HT, is one must learn that God's word/seed is not only for salvation. His word contains all of God's Plan For Man.

So...wearing glasses, or having the flu, is tantamount to admitting to sin?
LOL

[Hill Top]

Rejoicing because you are sick? You might ask God to keep you sick and also fill you with so much disease since that brings Him glory.

That is what Paul did, isn't it?
It is written..." For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2 Cor 12:8-10)

What sickness and diseases did Paul have? Are you one of the folks that believe Paul was blind and had some type of disease?

Who knows, as it isn't written: but he did "take pleasure in infinities".