Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ KEEP REPENTING OR ETERNAL SECURITY?

[luchnia]

As been pointed out before, understanding God's seed and how it works will shed light on it, but if that light is not allowed it cannot be received.

You may not realize it but you are inferring that God's seed CAN bring forth the fruit of devilish seed.

Actually, quite the opposite. It might help you to study farming, seed, soil, etc. From reading all your post it appears you are not open to understanding the whole of the John's writings much less the chapter that has the verse you continue to post out of context.

If "the whole of the writings" includes tolerance for sin, I want nothing to do with it.
Answer this question...Can apple seed bear something besides apples?
No?
So why can the seed of God bear something besides Christlike beings?
Frankly...it can't.

Since you like to carry analogy of grapes, figs, apples, etc., let me ask you some simple questions. Can you plant different seeds in the same soil? Can the same soil bear fruit from those different seeds? How do other seeds get into the soil? Who plants them?

Spend some serious time studying farming as I mentioned in a previous post and learn about seed and what seed does to the soil it is planted in. Along with studying farming, study the parable of the sower. Without understanding that parable you won't be able to understand how the seed works. The seed of God cannot bear anything dark at all and certainly cannot bear sin that is why 1 Jn is perfect for aiding in understanding this. An apple tree cannot bear olives, but the soil can bear fruit from whatever seed planted there. Many continue to put seed into soil that is tainted and then at some point the seed is lost for a variety of reasons (old wine skins - Matt Chapter 9).

The apple tree can be scorched and withered, choked, removed, and so on. The same with the seed of God. It can be withered, choked, removed, etc. It is all dependent on the soil! Understanding farming was something that Jesus knew people could understand and He also let the disciples know that if they did not understand the parable of the sower they could not understand the rest.

The seed of satan bears the unrighteous actions of the sinner. You may ask yourself how does the seed of satan get into the soil? I gave you James chapter 1 because it was very simple in understanding the process of how sin enters and figured you might get a hold of that, yet the scriptures show us in many places how this happens in the individual and why one must stand against that.

The fact taught in God's word that a saint can fall away is a difficult concept for some as in your case, yet it is simple to understand why Jesus taught it and the purpose of why God made it that way. It is all about man loving God. That is another subject though for another thread.

[bibleman]

As been pointed out before, understanding God's seed and how it works will shed light on it, but if that light is not allowed it cannot be received.

You may not realize it but you are inferring that God's seed CAN bring forth the fruit of devilish seed.

Actually, quite the opposite. It might help you to study farming, seed, soil, etc. From reading all your post it appears you are not open to understanding the whole of the John's writings much less the chapter that has the verse you continue to post out of context.

If "the whole of the writings" includes tolerance for sin, I want nothing to do with it.
Answer this question...Can apple seed bear something besides apples?
No?
So why can the seed of God bear something besides Christlike beings?
Frankly...it can't.

Now I don't know but based on your age it would seem that maybe you are married and maybe you have children.... I myself have a wife (of 46 years) and 2 children.

Based on that assumption... Has your wife or your children ever committed a sin after their salvation? Just wanting to find out if this sinless perfection extends to your family.

[Hill Top]

HillTop, May I ask how many are in your home church and what part of the world you reside?

I'm in Arizona, And there are less than 2 thousand of us.

[Hill Top]

Since you like to carry analogy of grapes, figs, apples, etc., let me ask you some simple questions. Can you plant different seeds in the same soil? Can the same soil bear fruit from those different seeds? How do other seeds get into the soil? Who plants them?

Yes, yes, a farmer plants them.

Spend some serious time studying farming as I mentioned in a previous post and learn about seed and what seed does to the soil it is planted in. Along with studying farming, study the parable of the sower. Without understanding that parable you won't be able to understand how the seed works. The seed of God cannot bear anything dark at all and certainly cannot bear sin that is why 1 Jn is perfect for aiding in understanding this. An apple tree cannot bear olives, but the soil can bear fruit from whatever seed planted there. Many continue to put seed into soil that is tainted and then at some point the seed is lost for a variety of reasons (old wine skins - Matt Chapter 9).

Can the seed of God bear the fruit of the devil?
No.

The apple tree can be scorched and withered, choked, removed, and so on. The same with the seed of God. It can be withered, choked, removed, etc. It is all dependent on the soil! Understanding farming was something that Jesus knew people could understand and He also let the disciples know that if they did not understand the parable of the sower they could not understand the rest.

Next you will be blaming the country of the soil the seed is planted in for it's fruit.
The seed, no matter what kind of soil it is planted in, will only bear after its own sort.

The seed of satan bears the unrighteous actions of the sinner. You may ask yourself how does the seed of satan get into the soil? I gave you James chapter 1 because it was very simple in understanding the process of how sin enters and figured you might get a hold of that, yet the scriptures show us in many places how this happens in the individual and why one must stand against that.

The seed of God within them prevents sin.

The fact taught in God's word that a saint can fall away is a difficult concept for some as in your case, yet it is simple to understand why Jesus taught it and the purpose of why God made it that way. It is all about man loving God. That is another subject though for another thread.

Fig trees (God), cannot bear grapes, (sin).
They may 'seem' to 'fall away', but it is only because they are not of God that they sin.

[Hill Top]

Now I don't know but based on your age it would seem that maybe you are married and maybe you have children.... I myself have a wife (of 46 years) and 2 children.
Based on that assumption... Has your wife or your children ever committed a sin after their salvation? Just wanting to find out if this sinless perfection extends to your family.

I've never married or had children.

[bibleman]

Now I don't know but based on your age it would seem that maybe you are married and maybe you have children.... I myself have a wife (of 46 years) and 2 children.
Based on that assumption... Has your wife or your children ever committed a sin after their salvation? Just wanting to find out if this sinless perfection extends to your family.

I've never married or had children.

Thanks....

Well since you have not been married, how about the 2,000 people that are part of your company of believers as you said above...

Have all of them lived lives of sinless perfection since the time of their salvation experience?

[Hill Top]

Now I don't know but based on your age it would seem that maybe you are married and maybe you have children.... I myself have a wife (of 46 years) and 2 children.
Based on that assumption... Has your wife or your children ever committed a sin after their salvation? Just wanting to find out if this sinless perfection extends to your family.

I've never married or had children.

Thanks....

Well since you have not been married, how about the 2,000 people that are part of your company of believers as you said above...
Have all of them lived lives of sinless perfection since the time of their salvation experience?

The unrepentant leave. They find it impossible to live with the righteous while in the midst of their sin.
They will be welcomed back if they ever do want to submit to God.

[bibleman]

Now I don't know but based on your age it would seem that maybe you are married and maybe you have children.... I myself have a wife (of 46 years) and 2 children.
Based on that assumption... Has your wife or your children ever committed a sin after their salvation? Just wanting to find out if this sinless perfection extends to your family.

I've never married or had children.

Thanks....

Well since you have not been married, how about the 2,000 people that are part of your company of believers as you said above...
Have all of them lived lives of sinless perfection since the time of their salvation experience?

The unrepentant leave. They find it impossible to live with the righteous while in the midst of their sin.
They will be welcomed back if they ever do want to submit to God.

OK - I don't think I understand...

How can they be "unrepentant" if they NEVER commit sin?

(As an example you - who never sins - you never have to repent because you have no sin to repent of)

So why should the other 2000 have to repent - since they like you would have no sin to repent of?

[luchnia]

Since you like to carry analogy of grapes, figs, apples, etc., let me ask you some simple questions. Can you plant different seeds in the same soil? Can the same soil bear fruit from those different seeds? How do other seeds get into the soil? Who plants them?

Yes, yes, a farmer plants them.

Spend some serious time studying farming as I mentioned in a previous post and learn about seed and what seed does to the soil it is planted in. Along with studying farming, study the parable of the sower. Without understanding that parable you won't be able to understand how the seed works. The seed of God cannot bear anything dark at all and certainly cannot bear sin that is why 1 Jn is perfect for aiding in understanding this. An apple tree cannot bear olives, but the soil can bear fruit from whatever seed planted there. Many continue to put seed into soil that is tainted and then at some point the seed is lost for a variety of reasons (old wine skins - Matt Chapter 9).

Can the seed of God bear the fruit of the devil?
No.

The apple tree can be scorched and withered, choked, removed, and so on. The same with the seed of God. It can be withered, choked, removed, etc. It is all dependent on the soil! Understanding farming was something that Jesus knew people could understand and He also let the disciples know that if they did not understand the parable of the sower they could not understand the rest.

Next you will be blaming the country of the soil the seed is planted in for it's fruit.
The seed, no matter what kind of soil it is planted in, will only bear after its own sort.

The seed of satan bears the unrighteous actions of the sinner. You may ask yourself how does the seed of satan get into the soil? I gave you James chapter 1 because it was very simple in understanding the process of how sin enters and figured you might get a hold of that, yet the scriptures show us in many places how this happens in the individual and why one must stand against that.

The seed of God within them prevents sin.

The fact taught in God's word that a saint can fall away is a difficult concept for some as in your case, yet it is simple to understand why Jesus taught it and the purpose of why God made it that way. It is all about man loving God. That is another subject though for another thread.

Fig trees (God), cannot bear grapes, (sin).
They may 'seem' to 'fall away', but it is only because they are not of God that they sin.

I see you do not understand what the soil is that houses the seed and how that works, so no wonder you would not understand it as far as the seed of God and how it works. This makes much more sense now why you take the position you do opposing the other scriptures dealing with this.

[Hill Top]

Well since you have not been married, how about the 2,000 people that are part of your company of believers as you said above...
Have all of them lived lives of sinless perfection since the time of their salvation experience?

The unrepentant leave. They find it impossible to live with the righteous while in the midst of their sin.
They will be welcomed back if they ever do want to submit to God.

OK - I don't think I understand...
How can they be "unrepentant" if they NEVER commit sin?

My response was to your question about "Have all of them lived lives of sinless perfection?".
If they commit sin, they are unrepentant.
They are offered a chance for a REAL turn from sin, but leave instead of truly submitting to God.

(As an example you - who never sins - you never have to repent because you have no sin to repent of)
So why should the other 2000 have to repent - since they like you would have no sin to repent of?

Again, my response concerned those who do not live according the doctrine of Godliness.
I guess I should have just answered "No".