Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ KEEP REPENTING OR ETERNAL SECURITY?

[Hill Top]

OK - Of course I agree that we are to live a life WITHOUT sin.
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man shall see the Lord in Hebrews 12:14.
AND yes we are to be victorious.
AND I remember over and over again the Book of Revelation tells us we are to be OVERCOMERS.
ALL true...

But being very honest here.... I made Jesus Lord of my life in OCtober of 1975.
And from them until now, I would be lying if I said I had not sinned or missed the mark a number of times. (44 years after all)
Sadly I have... but without (when convicted of the Holy Spirit and being made aware of my sin) I asked for forgiveness every time. And I walk in the joy of my salvation today and wonderful fellowship with the Lord who is my best friend.

Too bad you had to change lanes with "BUT".
"Of course...", and "The bible teaches...", and "Yes we are to be...", and "I remember..."; BUT your life doesn't show it so it can't be true?
Did you know you could live without sin in 1975? Were any of the teachers around you living such a life as examples to the sheep?
If "my" message would have been presented to you by witnesses of the truth would you have "accepted Jesus" in 1975?
You said YES a few times but now defend NO.???

xamples I hate to mention... During this time I have wasted time, failed to witness, not put God first on a few occasions, when younger I had a bad temper, even lied when under pressure years ago, let my ego get the best of me thru pride.
What I am saying is in my 44 years of living for Christ - I have sinned. It is not a practice - but I have missed the mark.
BUT you on the other hand say that you have never sinned or missed the mark ONE single time in 15 years.
It seems that you were born again FULLY mature... with ALL the fullness of God... in EVERY single Christian grace... and have lived a PERFECT life for over 15 years.

I was born again...of different seed!
I cannot bear the fruit of any other seed.'
Of course I have grown in grace and knowledge, but God won't allow men to be tempted above what they are able to endure...(1 Cor 10:13)

1) CONGRATULATIONS! You are the ONE and ONLY person I have ever met (in over 44 years of interacting with Christians) who has never sinned since their salvation experience. And have lived this complete and perfect victory for over 15 years. I take my hat off to you. You are a better man than I am... A better man than my godly grandfather was... A better man that TL Osborn... BIlly Graham... Charles Stanley... Kenneth Hagin... A better man than every person I have ever met... A better man that ALL the heroes of the Bible... In fact YOU and JESUS stand alone in the history of the world as being sin free!

I adjure you in the name of Jesus Christ to follow the example of Christ Jesus who while in the skin committed no sins.
"Be ye holy for I am holy".

OR
2) You are NOT being honest with us. (Even people like Paul, James and John, and Peter, PLUS OT saints like King David, Samson, Abraham etc all missed the mark.) Yet you make the claim you have never sinned since your salvation experience. That is just too much to believe.

Show the sin of any reborn apostle or prophet.
I'll deal with it.
The OT men were all constrained to live in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
The practically had to commit sin.
In the NT, we have been allowed a way to kill the old man and be raised again with Christ to walk in newness of life...not sameness of life.

NOW I don't know you and would in no way attempt to judge your heart and relationship before God. SO forgive me when I say option 2 above seems to be the case.
PS: Just thought of something... You have never had to say "forgive me" to anybody since your salvation, You have NEVER had to say "you are sorry" even one time since you were saved. You have never raised your voice or said even one word that ever hurt someone else's feelings.

All you are doing is looking for latitude in a Christ like life.
Loop-holes in righteousness.
You are not the first, and unfortunately won't be the last either.
I've apologized for mistakes and misreads about people, but not for anything that was a premeditated, lust satisfying, enticement or temptation to do evil.
If you want to be "only human", quit calling yourself a Christian.
You will manifest the fruit of the seed that you are of.

[Hill Top]

It is important to understand that one born of God does not commit sin. The term unsaved christian is what would be called an oxymoron. So the question can be asked, what happens to the seed of God when a child of God falls and chooses to serve sin and its master? Are they still saved in sin? I have oft found this fascinating how the human psyche works and the first chapter of James shows us exactly how sin occurs in a person based on their own choice in the matter.

The math is simple and reminds me of the old saying, "It is so simple a child could understand it." Enduring temptation can take all of one's spiritual muscles and preparedness. There is no mistake that a sinner does not serve God if we are to believe what Paul says in Romans and whom one yields to and who the children of the devil are.

They are certainly not an "unsaved christian", but plainly unsaved and serving satan because of their choice to give lust birth to sin and they are in need of repentance and be renewed again (born once more) unto eternal life. Praise God that if (not when) any man sin he has an advocate with the Father - the One whom can advocate on our behalf.

Talking about oxymorons...
You started out saying..."It is important to understand that one born of God does not commit sin.", and ended with..."renewed again (born once more)".
Which is it?
Born again of incorruptible seed, or born again a bunch of times of corruptible seed?

[Hill Top]

Hill Top, Your position is CLOSE TO Dake's belief that when a Christian sins he has lost his salvation and has to be born again. but you are saying he was wasn't really born again in the first place.

As one born of God cannot produce fruit from anyone's else's seed but God's, the sinners still need to be reborn.

So are you in agreement with the Baptist "Once saved always saved" Calvinist doctrine? And to think that I came into this conversation thinking Dake was a bit too extreme and now I'm leaning towards Mr. Calvin!!

While I believe that those born of God will be saved on the day of judgement, the baptists think they will still produce the fruit of the devil after rebirth and it won't influence judgement.
Quite a travesty of the truth which Jesus said could free us from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)

[bibleman]

I've apologized for mistakes and misreads about people, but not for anything that was a premeditated, lust satisfying, enticement or temptation to do evil.

So are you saying that to be a sin it MUST be premeditated?

[luchnia]

As been pointed out before, understanding God's seed and how it works will shed light on it, but if that light is not allowed it cannot be received.

You may not realize it but you are inferring that God's seed CAN bring forth the fruit of devilish seed.

Actually, quite the opposite. It might help you to study farming, seed, soil, etc. From reading all your post it appears you are not open to understanding the whole of the John's writings much less the chapter that has the verse you continue to post out of context.

[Hill Top]

I've apologized for mistakes and misreads about people, but not for anything that was a premeditated, lust satisfying, enticement or temptation to do evil.

So are you saying that to be a sin it MUST be premeditated?

James says it in James 1:14-15..." But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
It takes a temptation AND lust AND enticement AND conception to bring forth sin.
Hardly a likeliness of being accidental...eh?

[Hill Top]

Hill Top, A few years back I had dinner with a Sunday School teacher who also owned a computer company, a "smart" guy. He preceded to tell me how his Baptist X- wife who was saved had left him and his children to live with a ghetto type guy, and this teacher was sure she was still saved!!!.
So, you are saying it's the Baptists who are in a class by themselves and don't hold the Calvinist view on salvation?
How many Baptists take this view?

Not being familiar with Calvinism all I can answer is...who cares?
They are still sinning and won't be "saved" at the day of judgement.
Matt 7:22-23 is a good argument for debunking the baptist's belief..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Iniquity is sin.
The baptists are prepared to say to the Lord..."But I believed in you", and the Lord will say..."So does the devil."

[Hill Top]

Hill Top, are there any denominations that think like you regarding salvation?

I have no idea, but there are so few people willing to submit totally to God that a big building style church would be very unusual.

Do you participate in organized Christian religion?

Only as a question asking visitor.
We are a home church.

I haven't been to Sunday Church for a couple of years. What upsets me about them is they can discern the weather but can't discern the signs of the times, even the three A.G. churches in my area.

Isn't it a pity?

[Hill Top]

HillTop, How do you reconcile Paul calling the Galatians foolish for keeping the law?

The Galatians were getting false teachings from interlopers who wanted to subject the Gal's to circumcision.
That is the Law Paul was railing at. Later labeling it "works".
Unfortunately, of late, folks have dismissed anything but belief as necessary for salvation. Calling it "works salvation", they are complacent with accommodating sin in their midst. They neglect repentance from sin and baptism and obedience...to their own destruction.

[Hill Top]

As been pointed out before, understanding God's seed and how it works will shed light on it, but if that light is not allowed it cannot be received.

You may not realize it but you are inferring that God's seed CAN bring forth the fruit of devilish seed.

Actually, quite the opposite. It might help you to study farming, seed, soil, etc. From reading all your post it appears you are not open to understanding the whole of the John's writings much less the chapter that has the verse you continue to post out of context.

If "the whole of the writings" includes tolerance for sin, I want nothing to do with it.
Answer this question...Can apple seed bear something besides apples?
No?
So why can the seed of God bear something besides Christlike beings?
Frankly...it can't.