No I disagree. Here is what I believe.Hill Top wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:28 pmDo you think that if Paul considered his writings as equal to the Torah, he would have treasured them in some safe, revered, place instead of giving them to men to transport to far away cities??bibleman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:34 amFIRST off Neither of those so called scholars are conservative scholars. Evans is once saved always saved and Powel is a ecumenical Lutheran. So where are the conservative scholars you spoke of?Grandfather wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:47 amI didn’t say 1 Thes 2:13 was an opinion, please read it again. You offered an opinion that 1 Thes proved your position. Two different things.bibleman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:48 amSince when did 1 Thessalonians 2:13 become an opinion?Grandfather wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:15 amNo. You offered an opinion that you only support with another of your opinions.bibleman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:00 amYou are the one that appealed to scholar's not me... The Word of God (Word of Paul) is good enough for me.Grandfather wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:55 pm
And the disagreement is about your understanding of Pauls statement. If it was as clear as you propose then why can't you cite several scholars that agree with you?
PLUS - now you can't come up with a scholar to support your unbiblical point of view.
Oh, here are but a few of the resourses that clearly indicate we have no certainity what Paul thought about the weight of his letters. (All paragraphs are from different articles and authors and are not my own.)
According to Dr. Evan Burns, “{The above verse} is directly referring to the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament) … Based on this information, there is no way to know with absolute certainty whether all the writers of the New Testament did indeed know they were writing scripture.
Mark Allan Powell, in his recent New Testament introduction, affirms this view plainly, “The authors of our New Testament books did not know that they were writings scripture.” Gamble takes the same approach, “None of the writings which belong to the NT was composed as scripture…[they] were written for immediate and practical purposes within the early churches, and only gradually did they come to be valued and to be spoken of as ‘scripture’.”…. My contention here is simple: the NT authors show evidence that they understood their writings to contain authoritative apostolic tradition, but would not be the same as viewing those writings as equal to scripture.
Paul certainly intended his readers to take his letters as authoritative. He also might have anticipated that they would be incorporated into some collection of teachings as the rabbinic Jews collected the wisdom of the sages, prophets and teachers into collections as sacred writings. But we can't know if Paul anticipated the creation of the New Testament nor can we know if he expected his letters to be represented in it.
SECOND That be as it may, I think I will take the WORD of God over the words of man.
No doubt about it, The Words of Paul were the Word of God when HE wrote them and still the Word of God today.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (TLB) 13 And we will never stop thanking God for this: that when we preached to you, you didn’t think of the words we spoke as being just our own, but you accepted what we said as the very Word of God—which, of course, it was—and it changed your lives when you believed it.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (TEV) 13 And there is another reason why we always give thanks to God. When we brought you God's message, you heard it and accepted it, not as a message from human beings but as God's message, which indeed it is. For God is at work in you who believe.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (AMP) 13 And we also [especially] thank God continually for this, that when you received the message of God [which you heard] from us, you welcomed it not as the word of [mere] men, but as it truly is, the Word of God, which is effectually at work in you who believe [exercising its superhuman power in those who adhere to and trust in and rely on it].
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (CSBBible) 13 This is why we constantly thank God, because when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you welcomed it not as a human message, but as it truly is, the word of God, which also works effectively in you who believe.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (NKJV) 13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
THIRD All Scripture comes from God.
2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: inspiration - divinely breathed, Strong's
So it is up to you if you believe the Bible or not.
You can believe it and grow in your faith or doubt it and remain in ignorance.
As he was an ex-Pharisee, he would know how God's word had been treated previously, and would have probably done the same with what God had given him.
I don't feel he felt his writings were without value, but were merely a record of what had been revealed to him.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.