Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Was Redemption Planned BEFORE Creation?

[victoryword]

Better yet, was redemption planned before the fall of man?

http://victoriouswordchurch.blogspot.co ... ation.html

[victoryword]

I know that Dake and I may not agree on this one particular point. However, Dake and I do agree on the subject of foreknowledge as a whole. I first learned it from Dake (though I rejected it when Ifirst read his teaching on it). Therefore, if Dake and I agree on foreknowledge then it only makes sense not to read Rev. 13:8 as Christ being slain even before the restoration of the earth in the gap between Genesis 1:1-2.

Here's a study by H. Roy Elseth which is where I first began to understand "katabole" as I use in my devotional:

http://www.libraryoftheology.com/writin ... Elseth.pdf

[titus213]

Elseth is following the old Bullinger explanations and is very mistaken. He is using all the 'Greek proves this' fallacies I can think of in just the one article, especially what is known as the Greek root fallacy. This fallacy is based on the assumption that a Greek word gets its meaning from the components of which it is made. It's like saying that the word 'butterfly' must refer to an insect that likes butter.

The word 'katabole' means the 'conception' or the origin of something; "foundation" or "creation" is accurate. "Before the foundation of the world" is correct; "before the overthrow of the world" is not.
Besides, there are other verses in Scripture which show that God's plan of redemption is eternal, which do not use the word 'katabole'.

That being said, as an open theist I don't believe that the sin of Adam was set in stone merely because God had a plan in place before Adam's creation, if he were to sin. As with all events where human beings have the freedom to choose, God knows what the possible choices are and makes provision for all of them, insuring that His purposes will be accomplished regardless of which choice is made. THAT is the real meaning of sovereignty.

[branham1965]

suffrin sucotash.... remind me never to fuss with you Pastor Titus.whew.

reminds me of the cartoon where Cowboy Bugs is playing cards with Yosemite Sam...he says dont bother me...im a thinkin'...and my head hurts.

Elseth is following the old Bullinger explanations and is very mistaken. He is using all the 'Greek proves this' fallacies I can think of in just the one article, especially what is known as the Greek root fallacy. This fallacy is based on the assumption that a Greek word gets its meaning from the components of which it is made. It's like saying that the word 'butterfly' must refer to an insect that likes butter.

The word 'katabole' means the 'conception' or the origin of something; "foundation" or "creation" is accurate. "Before the foundation of the world" is correct; "before the overthrow of the world" is not.
Besides, there are other verses in Scripture which show that God's plan of redemption is eternal, which do not use the word 'katabole'.

That being said, as an open theist I don't believe that the sin of Adam was set in stone merely because God had a plan in place before Adam's creation, if he were to sin. As with all events where human beings have the freedom to choose, God knows what the possible choices are and makes provision for all of them, insuring that His purposes will be accomplished regardless of which choice is made. THAT is the real meaning of sovereignty.