Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Finis Dake's View of Spirtual Warfare

[victoryword]

Sometimes I read some of the modern day spiritual warfare literature and I get this feeling like God is still trying to fight in order to win a battle and that we are fighting in order to get a victory, all with the strong possibility that we and God might lose a few of them. Then I read passages of Scripture where we are told that Satan is defeated, we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins and I begin to realize that some modern spiritual warfare proponents seem to be contributing to the defeat that so many suffer in the church because they do not know how to stand in the victory that Jesus wrought for them through His death, burial and resurrection.

Reading what Finis Dake had to say on this subject is a breath of fresh air. Concerning the armor of God in Ephesians 6 Dake writes:

• "The us of this armour presupposes the reality of the new birth and personal knowledge of sonship with God and baptism in the Holy Spirit or the enduement of power from on high for service. With such equipment for spiritual warfare it is impossible for one to live in helplessness and weakness in his spiritual life. It is noticeable that this whole armour centers around the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, the personal experience of the new birth, a holy life, walking in the light of truth, trusting in God for deliverance and protection, and aggressive warfare in prayer against the forces of darkness." (Finis Dake, Bible Truths Unmasked, p. 105, 1987 printing)

I will also include this on our church's Facebook page if ya'll want to "like it"

[Justaned]

Sometimes I read some of the modern day spiritual warfare literature and I get this feeling like God is still trying to fight in order to win a battle and that we are fighting in order to get a victory, all with the strong possibility that we and God might lose a few of them. Then I read passages of Scripture where we are told that Satan is defeated, we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins and I begin to realize that some modern spiritual warfare proponents seem to be contributing to the defeat that so many suffer in the church because they do not know how to stand in the victory that Jesus wrought for them through His death, burial and resurrection.

Reading what Finis Dake had to say on this subject is a breath of fresh air. Concerning the armor of God in Ephesians 6 Dake writes:

• "The us of this armour presupposes the reality of the new birth and personal knowledge of sonship with God and baptism in the Holy Spirit or the enduement of power from on high for service. With such equipment for spiritual warfare it is impossible for one to live in helplessness and weakness in his spiritual life. It is noticeable that this whole armour centers around the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, the personal experience of the new birth, a holy life, walking in the light of truth, trusting in God for deliverance and protection, and aggressive warfare in prayer against the forces of darkness." (Finis Dake, Bible Truths Unmasked, p. 105, 1987 printing)

I will also include this on our church's Facebook page if ya'll want to "like it"

I agree with what Dake said and I more or less agree with what VIctoryword said...except ( you all knew that was coming didn't you?)
Victoryword said

we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins

Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan.
The armor of Eph 6 was given so we could STAND against the wiles of Satan. It does not imply or suggest we have authority over Satan.
If we had authority over Satan does not stand to reason that by now someone would have forbidden Satan from messing with Christians on earth? In fact we can't bind Satan as many Christians believe. If we could bind Satan then the question would have to be asked who keeps untying him?

The problem with Christians today in relation to spiritual warfare is they don't understand their position nor do they fully trust in God. Instead like Abraham when he conceived Ishmael they want to handle things for themselves. Often the results are just like Ishmael/Abraham results were a mess.

Yes there is a victory in Christ and the closer we keep ourselves to Christ the more the victory is realized in our life. When we run ahead or lag behind then we have problems. Take up the armor and STAND today!

[macca]

Sometimes I read some of the modern day spiritual warfare literature and I get this feeling like God is still trying to fight in order to win a battle and that we are fighting in order to get a victory, all with the strong possibility that we and God might lose a few of them. Then I read passages of Scripture where we are told that Satan is defeated, we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins and I begin to realize that some modern spiritual warfare proponents seem to be contributing to the defeat that so many suffer in the church because they do not know how to stand in the victory that Jesus wrought for them through His death, burial and resurrection.

Reading what Finis Dake had to say on this subject is a breath of fresh air. Concerning the armor of God in Ephesians 6 Dake writes:

• "The us of this armour presupposes the reality of the new birth and personal knowledge of sonship with God and baptism in the Holy Spirit or the enduement of power from on high for service. With such equipment for spiritual warfare it is impossible for one to live in helplessness and weakness in his spiritual life. It is noticeable that this whole armour centers around the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, the personal experience of the new birth, a holy life, walking in the light of truth, trusting in God for deliverance and protection, and aggressive warfare in prayer against the forces of darkness." (Finis Dake, Bible Truths Unmasked, p. 105, 1987 printing)

I will also include this on our church's Facebook page if ya'll want to "like it"

I agree with what Dake said and I more or less agree with what VIctoryword said...except ( you all knew that was coming didn't you?)
Victoryword said

we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins

Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan.
The armor of Eph 6 was given so we could STAND against the wiles of Satan. It does not imply or suggest we have authority over Satan.
If we had authority over Satan does not stand to reason that by now someone would have forbidden Satan from messing with Christians on earth? In fact we can't bind Satan as many Christians believe. If we could bind Satan then the question would have to be asked who keeps untying him?

The problem with Christians today in relation to spiritual warfare is they don't understand their position nor do they fully trust in God. Instead like Abraham when he conceived Ishmael they want to handle things for themselves. Often the results are just like Ishmael/Abraham results were a mess.

Yes there is a victory in Christ and the closer we keep ourselves to Christ the more the victory is realized in our life. When we run ahead or lag behind then we have problems. Take up the armor and STAND today!

Ed! you just answered your own question, christians keep untying satan.

macca

[victoryword]

VictoryWord, my wife wants a divorce and won't go to marriage counseling. I've been doing spiritual warfare since July. At that time she forced me out of my home with a trumped up Order of Protection. The Devil is defeated and I am the righteousness of Christ and the Lord has promised to give me the desires of my heart and I am standing on the promises of God. I've had 4 dreams of reconciliation which encourages me. What's your advise? I have repented for not loving her as Christ loves the Church which was my biggest sin and have improved my time with the Lord in a major way. I thought Jesus had taken the chastisement of my peace at Calvary but I've had some tough days since I desperately miss my home and family. Others may comment.

Dolph

If you are sure that the dreams are from the Lord then you can stand on that against the satanic attacks concerning your marriage. The Bible tells us, "....according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare" (1 Tim. 1:18).

However, in a case like this remember that you are dealing with a person with free-will (your wife). Therefore, there will may not necessarily be a quick and easy victory. This is not the same as believing God for deliverance from some sinful habit, healing for your body, financial needs, or similar things for yourself. Nevertheless, in cases such as this you can command Satan to remove his blinding power over her and ask the Holy Spirit to convict her. However, she still has to cooperate with the Holy Spirit, who she is able to resist if she so desires. Bu again, if you are sure that these dreams are from God then use them to wage warfare against Satan. When he tells you that the marriage is over, remind him about what God said to you. But get before God and get confirmation that these dreams of reconciliation actually did come from Him. If He confirms it in your spirit then wage your warfare and claim the victory for your marriage.

[victoryword]

Victoryword said

we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins

Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan.
The armor of Eph 6 was given so we could STAND against the wiles of Satan. It does not imply or suggest we have authority over Satan.
If we had authority over Satan does not stand to reason that by now someone would have forbidden Satan from messing with Christians on earth? In fact we can't bind Satan as many Christians believe. If we could bind Satan then the question would have to be asked who keeps untying him?

The problem with Christians today in relation to spiritual warfare is they don't understand their position nor do they fully trust in God. Instead like Abraham when he conceived Ishmael they want to handle things for themselves. Often the results are just like Ishmael/Abraham results were a mess.

Yes there is a victory in Christ and the closer we keep ourselves to Christ the more the victory is realized in our life. When we run ahead or lag behind then we have problems. Take up the armor and STAND today!

Ed

You are making an argument based on mere SEMANTICS when you say, "The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan. " If I am IN CHRIST then what Christ has is also mine. But you asked for SCRIPTURE. Simple enough:

• Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. (Rom. 8:37)
  
  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 15:57)
  
  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7)
  
  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.... Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. (Eph. 6:13)
  
  Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. (Luke 10:19)

Notice that victory has been GIVEN to us. Linguistically speaking, if something is given to someone then its theirs. Notice that WE ARE MORE THAN CONQUERORS, therefore it stands to reason once again that victory is ours. Notice again that Jesus has GIVEN US AUTHORITY over the devil. Once again, if it is GIVEN to us then it is ours. Then there is the responsibility given to US to resist the devil and stand against him. Jesus is NOT going to do that for us. He has GIVEN us His authority. It I ours and we can choose to use it or not use it.

[victoryword]

The reason why the victory is only by faith, and why the fight of faith is the good fight, is this--it is the Lord Jesus who purchased the victory, and who alone gives power and dominion over the enemy. If we abide in Him, surrender ourselves to live in Him, and by faith appropriate what he is, then the victory is in itself our own. (Andrew Murray, Living the New Life, p. 134)

[bibleman]

Sometimes I read some of the modern day spiritual warfare literature and I get this feeling like God is still trying to fight in order to win a battle and that we are fighting in order to get a victory, all with the strong possibility that we and God might lose a few of them. Then I read passages of Scripture where we are told that Satan is defeated, we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins and I begin to realize that some modern spiritual warfare proponents seem to be contributing to the defeat that so many suffer in the church because they do not know how to stand in the victory that Jesus wrought for them through His death, burial and resurrection.

Reading what Finis Dake had to say on this subject is a breath of fresh air. Concerning the armor of God in Ephesians 6 Dake writes:

• "The us of this armour presupposes the reality of the new birth and personal knowledge of sonship with God and baptism in the Holy Spirit or the enduement of power from on high for service. With such equipment for spiritual warfare it is impossible for one to live in helplessness and weakness in his spiritual life. It is noticeable that this whole armour centers around the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, the personal experience of the new birth, a holy life, walking in the light of truth, trusting in God for deliverance and protection, and aggressive warfare in prayer against the forces of darkness." (Finis Dake, Bible Truths Unmasked, p. 105, 1987 printing)

I will also include this on our church's Facebook page if ya'll want to "like it"

I agree with what Dake said and I more or less agree with what VIctoryword said...except ( you all knew that was coming didn't you?)
Victoryword said

we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins

Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan.
The armor of Eph 6 was given so we could STAND against the wiles of Satan. It does not imply or suggest we have authority over Satan.
If we had authority over Satan does not stand to reason that by now someone would have forbidden Satan from messing with Christians on earth? In fact we can't bind Satan as many Christians believe. If we could bind Satan then the question would have to be asked who keeps untying him?

The problem with Christians today in relation to spiritual warfare is they don't understand their position nor do they fully trust in God. Instead like Abraham when he conceived Ishmael they want to handle things for themselves. Often the results are just like Ishmael/Abraham results were a mess.

Yes there is a victory in Christ and the closer we keep ourselves to Christ the more the victory is realized in our life. When we run ahead or lag behind then we have problems. Take up the armor and STAND today!

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

Authority over Satan.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Victory belongs to us.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Ironman]

Jesus gained authority over satan as a man, He cast out demons healed the sick and raised the dead. And He said;

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." (John 14:12).

[Justaned]

Victoryword said

we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins

Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan.
The armor of Eph 6 was given so we could STAND against the wiles of Satan. It does not imply or suggest we have authority over Satan.
If we had authority over Satan does not stand to reason that by now someone would have forbidden Satan from messing with Christians on earth? In fact we can't bind Satan as many Christians believe. If we could bind Satan then the question would have to be asked who keeps untying him?

The problem with Christians today in relation to spiritual warfare is they don't understand their position nor do they fully trust in God. Instead like Abraham when he conceived Ishmael they want to handle things for themselves. Often the results are just like Ishmael/Abraham results were a mess.

Yes there is a victory in Christ and the closer we keep ourselves to Christ the more the victory is realized in our life. When we run ahead or lag behind then we have problems. Take up the armor and STAND today!

Ed

You are making an argument based on mere SEMANTICS when you say, "The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan. " If I am IN CHRIST then what Christ has is also mine. But you asked for SCRIPTURE. Simple enough:

• Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. (Rom. 8:37)

Romans 8:31-39 (NKJV)
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Clearly it is Christ's victory and because of it we can have hope to endure all these things. Notice this is not a promise that we will not have to go through these, just that we will be brought through by Christ Jesus.
It is Christ that hold to us, even when we don't.

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 15:57)

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 (NKJV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

The victory again is clearly Jesus' this was written to tell us while Dead would still come to us it does not hold us. Once we die, we BECOME incorruptible in Christ because Jesus has won the victory over death.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7)

James 4:1-10 (NKJV)
1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Really you are going to use this passage as a example of our authority over Satan. This is admonishment to live holy and right. That the closer we live to God the more we are able to resist or not yield to all the evil deeds that were listed above.
We are also admonished not to be proud and think of ourselves as more then we are, we are humble ourselves in the sight of the Lord. Instead of thinking of ourselves as being victors when we really haven't done a thing we need to humble ourselves and draw close to God.

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.... Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. (Eph. 6:13)

Again no authority or victory here just the promise if we use that God has already given us we will be able to repeal the attacks of Satan. The Victory is Christ's the authority is Christ's

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. (Luke 10:19)[/list]

Luke 10:17-20 (NKJV)
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven."
This was explicitly given to the 70 not to every day believers and it was temporal because soon after they all suffered lost and death. In fact many of their deaths were horrible beyond our imaginations.

Notice that victory has been GIVEN to us. Linguistically speaking, if something is given to someone then its theirs. Notice that WE ARE MORE THAN CONQUERORS, therefore it stands to reason once again that victory is ours. Notice again that Jesus has GIVEN US AUTHORITY over the devil. Once again, if it is GIVEN to us then it is ours. Then there is the responsibility given to US to resist the devil and stand against him. Jesus is NOT going to do that for us. He has GIVEN us His authority. It I ours and we can choose to use it or not use it.

[/quote]

Linguistically speaking what was given to us was hope! The victory was Christ's we become more than conquerors when we realize our victory over death's hold once we experience death. No where in any of these do we see any authority given, except to a select few for a period of time, nor do we see man as victor until man does something. That something dying and be resurrected through the power and promise of Jesus Christ.

We can't command Satan, Satan does not have to respond to us. We have no Authority over him at all. What we have is promise that he is defeated and therefore the whatever he does is only temporal and if we stay close to God we will see him cast into the Lake of Fire. Until then Satan still accuses the saints, still lies and deceives and tries to convince man the he man is more that he is.

Again if we can bind Satan who unties Satan all the time? Answer nobody because we can't bind him to begin with.

[Justaned]

Sometimes I read some of the modern day spiritual warfare literature and I get this feeling like God is still trying to fight in order to win a battle and that we are fighting in order to get a victory, all with the strong possibility that we and God might lose a few of them. Then I read passages of Scripture where we are told that Satan is defeated, we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins and I begin to realize that some modern spiritual warfare proponents seem to be contributing to the defeat that so many suffer in the church because they do not know how to stand in the victory that Jesus wrought for them through His death, burial and resurrection.

Reading what Finis Dake had to say on this subject is a breath of fresh air. Concerning the armor of God in Ephesians 6 Dake writes:

• "The us of this armour presupposes the reality of the new birth and personal knowledge of sonship with God and baptism in the Holy Spirit or the enduement of power from on high for service. With such equipment for spiritual warfare it is impossible for one to live in helplessness and weakness in his spiritual life. It is noticeable that this whole armour centers around the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, the personal experience of the new birth, a holy life, walking in the light of truth, trusting in God for deliverance and protection, and aggressive warfare in prayer against the forces of darkness." (Finis Dake, Bible Truths Unmasked, p. 105, 1987 printing)

I will also include this on our church's Facebook page if ya'll want to "like it"

I agree with what Dake said and I more or less agree with what VIctoryword said...except ( you all knew that was coming didn't you?)
Victoryword said

we have authority over him, and victory already belongs to us before the battle ever begins

Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

The victory belongs to Jesus we can be partakers in the victory but the victory is not ours but Christ's. And all authority was given to Jesus not us. We have no authority over Satan.
The armor of Eph 6 was given so we could STAND against the wiles of Satan. It does not imply or suggest we have authority over Satan.
If we had authority over Satan does not stand to reason that by now someone would have forbidden Satan from messing with Christians on earth? In fact we can't bind Satan as many Christians believe. If we could bind Satan then the question would have to be asked who keeps untying him?

The problem with Christians today in relation to spiritual warfare is they don't understand their position nor do they fully trust in God. Instead like Abraham when he conceived Ishmael they want to handle things for themselves. Often the results are just like Ishmael/Abraham results were a mess.

Yes there is a victory in Christ and the closer we keep ourselves to Christ the more the victory is realized in our life. When we run ahead or lag behind then we have problems. Take up the armor and STAND today!

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Where is scripture do you find it saying that we have authority over Satan? Or that the victory belongs to us?

Authority over Satan.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Victory belongs to us.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are kidding right you rip these two passages from context and try to claim something neither even remotely suggests???????? See my response to Victoryword he used these also. Birds of a feather flock together. Prooftexters rip the same verses from context when it serves their purpose.