Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ KEEP REPENTING OR ETERNAL SECURITY?

[Hill Top]

So you wish they believe as you do, or would your heart find a place to guide them to believe as the Holy Spirit would have them believe even if it opposes your doctrine on this issue?

Don't you want people to believe as you do?

No, not as I believe. My understanding could be incorrect as my knowledge is limited in many ways. My desire is that people believe as the Holy Spirit would have them believe using the whole of scripture and not building an errant doctrine on an out of context verse. I have been guilty of the later numerous times in my life of studying God's word and that is why I can see it so easily. It has been a difficult thing to change and break free from taking an extreme amount of diligence and constant awareness.

Your lack of confidence is....revealing.

[luchnia]

So you wish they believe as you do, or would your heart find a place to guide them to believe as the Holy Spirit would have them believe even if it opposes your doctrine on this issue?

Don't you want people to believe as you do?

No, not as I believe. My understanding could be incorrect as my knowledge is limited in many ways. My desire is that people believe as the Holy Spirit would have them believe using the whole of scripture and not building an errant doctrine on an out of context verse. I have been guilty of the later numerous times in my life of studying God's word and that is why I can see it so easily. It has been a difficult thing to change and break free from taking an extreme amount of diligence and constant awareness.

Your lack of confidence is....revealing.

Don't confuse maturity with a lack of confidence. It is not a confidence issue for me when it comes to knowledge because I do know after all these years of study in God's word there is much I am ignorant about. Man can be wrong on so many levels, but we know God is right and that is the direction that men should be pointed in and that I am fully persuaded is the right path.

[bibleman]

As for: do I get ill...?
Yes, I get sick and stub my toes and have the onset of cataracts and have had insulin dependent diabetes for over thirty some years.
I'm loosing my hair and my ears ring like crickets and I think I am allergic to olive pollen. And I wear glasses.
Can any of these things cause me to commit sin?
No.
Remember, Paul had maladies, and so did Timothy, Epaphroditus, and Erastus,
While sickness CAN show one was taking communion unworthily, (1 Cor 11), it CAN also just be part of this fallen world's impact on the vessel now used by the Holy Ghost to accomplish God's will on earth.
So don't "read too much into it".

If you are offering to heal me, let's start with the cataracts...eye surgery really scares me.

FIRST off let me say - I pray for you, Sickness, disease, pain and suffering are not to be taken lightly.

Thank you.

Let me ask you.
Do you believe that physical healing is a benefit from the Lord?
Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

Yes, when it is His will.

Do you believe that Jesus HIMSELF took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses?
Matthew 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Yes, as He took the infirmities of the folks He healed.

Do you believe that by his stripes we are healed?
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Yes, but healed of sin, not illness.

Above you said: "If you are offering to heal me, let's start with the cataracts...eye surgery really scares me."

Did you know it is a sin to be scared?
Why do you not trust the Lord?
Why are you doubting God's tender loving care for you and entering into fear?

Your act of being scared is an act of sin!

Romans 14:23 "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

The Lord commanded through the prophet Isaiah...

Isaiah 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

David told us...

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

[Hill Top]

Bibleman asked HillTop, Let me ask you.
Do you believe that physical healing is a benefit from the Lord?
Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

HillTop replied, Yes, when it is His will.

HT, Why wouldn't it be God's will when He took our sicknesses and diseases and by His stripes we were healed at Calvary? The chastisement of our peace was upon Jesus. We were healed, delivered, made whole, in a sound condition and set free at Calvary. My Bible says Satan comes to kill, heal and destroy but Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly? Why would God make us sick when He gave us the full armor of God including the shield of faith that repels all the fiery darts of the enemy? We resist the Devil and he flees from us. He is under our feet because he is under Jesus' feet and we are in Him. We lay hands on the sick and they are healed. What kind of a father would give sickness to his children? Sickness is not one of God's tools for teaching us, we have the Holy Spirit teaching and guiding us. What about the exceedingly and precious promises God has given his children? Jesus took care of everything for us at Calvary. There won't be a second Calvary to save His children in the future. You don't have to die to be healed. We have the mind of Christ and through faith and patience we inherit the promises in this life time. HE DIED FOR US and provides ALL our needs according to His riches in glory. HillTop I think it's time for you to invest in a Dake Bible. PS: What so ever you desire when you pray, believe you receive it and you shall have have them (including good health). If you need a few hundred more scriptures along this line you know where to look.

What if it isn't the Lord's will that one is made healthy?
What if the illness leads one to a point where they are given an opportunity to witness to others?
Or to learn some special understanding?
Or a greater healing later?

Even illness can be used to glorify God.

[Hill Top]

Sickness is part of the curse that God put on man and the earth for Adam and Eve's rebellion, disobedience. But, PTL, Jesus took the curse of the Law upon Himself at Calvary so that we are no longer under the curse of the Law but under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Jesus set us free from the curse of the Law and whom the Son sets free is free indeed. Jesus is looking for a humble (teachable) spirit. Pride is the opposite of humility, it cometh before the fall. PRIDE IS THE WORSE SIN. Sin opens the door for the devil and demons to come in. Sickness is from the Devil and one should resist the Devil and he will flee from you! How can some one read Dake (not to mention the Bible) and not "get it"? There is no sickness in Heaven. It's an abomination to God. This is why Jesus's body was so disfigured at Calvary, by taking all the sicknesses and diseases of mankind upon Himself at Calvary. Why would any father put sickness on one of his own children?? Just the thought is repelling.

Tell it to Paul.

[Hill Top]

Above you said: "If you are offering to heal me, let's start with the cataracts...eye surgery really scares me."
Did you know it is a sin to be scared?
Why do you not trust the Lord?
Why are you doubting God's tender loving care for you and entering into fear?

Better provide the scrip's that say that.
Isn't it written..."Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;" (Heb 5:7) ?
If being scared was a sin, Jesus would not have been raised from the dead.

Your act of being scared is an act of sin!
Romans 14:23 "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
The Lord commanded through the prophet Isaiah...
Isaiah 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
David told us...
Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Better tell Jesus, whose sweat fell like droplets of blood.

[Hill Top]

Your lack of confidence is....revealing.

Don't confuse maturity with a lack of confidence. It is not a confidence issue for me when it comes to knowledge because I do know after all these years of study in God's word there is much I am ignorant about. Man can be wrong on so many levels, but we know God is right and that is the direction that men should be pointed in and that I am fully persuaded is the right path.

Why is your faith in your gleaned understandings in such doubt?
Are you not wiser today than "years ago"?
You offer so many opinions on this site, are all those positions prefaced with "maybe"s?

[Grandfather]

Sickness is part of the curse that God put on man and the earth for Adam and Eve's rebellion, disobedience. But, PTL, Jesus took the curse of the Law upon Himself at Calvary so that we are no longer under the curse of the Law but under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Jesus set us free from the curse of the Law and whom the Son sets free is free indeed. Jesus is looking for a humble (teachable) spirit. Pride is the opposite of humility, it cometh before the fall. PRIDE IS THE WORSE SIN. Sin opens the door for the devil and demons to come in. Sickness is from the Devil and one should resist the Devil and he will flee from you! How can some one read Dake (not to mention the Bible) and not "get it"? There is no sickness in Heaven. It's an abomination to God. This is why Jesus's body was so disfigured at Calvary, by taking all the sicknesses and diseases of mankind upon Himself at Calvary. Why would any father put sickness on one of his own children?? Just the thought is repelling.

There is a curse of the Law and there is a curse of the Fall. Don't confuse the two.

[Grandfather]

Grandfather, you bring up an interesting point. My guess is that the Law God gave the Jews was only for the Jews and if they kept the Law they would be blessed in the city, blessed in the field as found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and included good health. When God turned to the Gentiles he have the whole world a better covenant that included healing and offered sonship and and the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us. What say you?

Until women quit having pain in childbirth there is evidence that mankind still is subject to the consequences of the fall.

Gen 3:16 -- To the woman he said, “... in pain you shall bring forth children."

[luchnia]

Bibleman asked HillTop, Let me ask you.
Do you believe that physical healing is a benefit from the Lord?
Psalm 103:1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

HillTop replied, Yes, when it is His will.

HT, Why wouldn't it be God's will when He took our sicknesses and diseases and by His stripes we were healed at Calvary? The chastisement of our peace was upon Jesus. We were healed, delivered, made whole, in a sound condition and set free at Calvary. My Bible says Satan comes to kill, heal and destroy but Jesus came to give us life and life more abundantly? Why would God make us sick when He gave us the full armor of God including the shield of faith that repels all the fiery darts of the enemy? We resist the Devil and he flees from us. He is under our feet because he is under Jesus' feet and we are in Him. We lay hands on the sick and they are healed. What kind of a father would give sickness to his children? Sickness is not one of God's tools for teaching us, we have the Holy Spirit teaching and guiding us. What about the exceedingly and precious promises God has given his children? Jesus took care of everything for us at Calvary. There won't be a second Calvary to save His children in the future. You don't have to die to be healed. We have the mind of Christ and through faith and patience we inherit the promises in this life time. HE DIED FOR US and provides ALL our needs according to His riches in glory. HillTop I think it's time for you to invest in a Dake Bible. PS: What so ever you desire when you pray, believe you receive it and you shall have have them (including good health). If you need a few hundred more scriptures along this line you know where to look.

What if it isn't the Lord's will that one is made healthy?
What if the illness leads one to a point where they are given an opportunity to witness to others?
Or to learn some special understanding?
Or a greater healing later?

Even illness can be used to glorify God.

Interesting view. I have never once saw an illness glorify God, nor have found any scripture that shows an illness bringing glory to God.