Dake Bible Discussion BoardWhat is faith?

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Justaned
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Re: What is faith?

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Justaned wrote: +lol
Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?
Ed but the google search only brings up bias websites. Mostly Baptist heresy hunters, seventh day Adventist, church of christ ,mormons and those that adhere to calvinism.(no offence to any Baptist brothers on here)Surely you do not get your info from these websites. Even your favorite http://www.gotquestions.org/ that I have seen you quote from is a Baptist/Calvanitst website. One can always find other heresy hunters on the net. So a google search would not be sufficient enough. You can google search anything and find people to agree with you on any subject, that does not make it right..
Rocky
Who would you expect to critique a theology? The only one qualified would be an apologist, theological scholar or theological student. Surely you don't expect to have WOF theologian critique WOF without bias. And I'm not aware of a neutral secular person qualified to critique a theological matter.
You call the websites bias because you don't agree with them. If a baptist brings them up they surely don't call them biased.
And no I don't get my info from these websites. My info comes from first hand conversation, discussions, conferences, sitting in classes, reading books and viewing videos. But that isn't what Bibleman is after he wants a quote that he can dispute. To what end we all know he is going to disagree with it.
Hi Ed,

now of course you know that I ask for quotes on everything.

If there is no quotes then it is just what Ironman said... he said, you said, I said.

So the fact that you cannot produce a quote shows that it was never said and that it is ONLY what you would have liked for them to have said.

Right? :mrgreen:
I told you, you can get all the quotes you want just by doing a google search on falsehoods of the Word of Faith.
You are not after a quote you are simply seeing if you can get me to jump through your hoop. You are truly a sick man.

And we both know any quote I post you will disagree with, so what would be the point? I have played your game before, I may be slow but I do learn.


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bibleman
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Re: What is faith?

Post by bibleman »

Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Justaned wrote: +lol
Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?
Ed but the google search only brings up bias websites. Mostly Baptist heresy hunters, seventh day Adventist, church of christ ,mormons and those that adhere to calvinism.(no offence to any Baptist brothers on here)Surely you do not get your info from these websites. Even your favorite http://www.gotquestions.org/ that I have seen you quote from is a Baptist/Calvanitst website. One can always find other heresy hunters on the net. So a google search would not be sufficient enough. You can google search anything and find people to agree with you on any subject, that does not make it right..
Rocky
Who would you expect to critique a theology? The only one qualified would be an apologist, theological scholar or theological student. Surely you don't expect to have WOF theologian critique WOF without bias. And I'm not aware of a neutral secular person qualified to critique a theological matter.
You call the websites bias because you don't agree with them. If a baptist brings them up they surely don't call them biased.
And no I don't get my info from these websites. My info comes from first hand conversation, discussions, conferences, sitting in classes, reading books and viewing videos. But that isn't what Bibleman is after he wants a quote that he can dispute. To what end we all know he is going to disagree with it.
Hi Ed,

now of course you know that I ask for quotes on everything.

If there is no quotes then it is just what Ironman said... he said, you said, I said.

So the fact that you cannot produce a quote shows that it was never said and that it is ONLY what you would have liked for them to have said.

Right? :mrgreen:
I told you, you can get all the quotes you want just by doing a google search on falsehoods of the Word of Faith.
You are not after a quote you are simply seeing if you can get me to jump through your hoop. You are truly a sick man.

And we both know any quote I post you will disagree with, so what would be the point? I have played your game before, I may be slow but I do learn.
Ed?
Ed?
Ed?

You must be talking about someone else! :mrgreen:


God bless
Leon Bible

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http://www.dakebible.com
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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note
Rocky

Re: What is faith?

Post by Rocky »

Ed wrote: Rocky
Who would you expect to critique a theology? The only one qualified would be an apologist, theological scholar or theological student. Surely you don't expect to have WOF theologian critique WOF without bias. And I'm not aware of a neutral secular person qualified to critique a theological matter.
You call the websites bias because you don't agree with them. If a baptist brings them up they surely don't call them biased.
And no I don't get my info from these websites. My info comes from first hand conversation, discussions, conferences, sitting in classes, reading books and viewing videos. But that isn't what Bibleman is after he wants a quote that he can dispute. To what end we all know he is going to disagree with it.
Why not just give the quotes and then perhaps it can be discussed? +wink The fact of the matter theology can be studied without using heresy hunter websites. Or website that have biased opinions. I'll give an example, I can Google "Homosexuality is not a sin" and can find numerous websites that claim to be Christian claiming this is a fact. Or I can Google "The trinity is a catholic conspiracy" and can find websites dedicated to unbiblical anti Trinitarian theology. If I want to research something I go the their websites and see for myself what they teach, read their statements of faith, and look at the theology, then I simply get my Bible out and see if that lines up with it. Its pretty simple really. Sometimes it takes apologist, theological scholars to actually complicate things. The Bible is really quite simple to use.


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Justaned
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Re: What is faith?

Post by Justaned »

Rocky wrote: The Bible is really quite simple to use.
However it takes a pure heart and the leading of the Holy Spirit to use it correctly. If there is an agenda or without the leading of the Holy Spirit the bible will be used in an attempt to destroy. Witness Jesus' temptation by Satan in the wilderness.

The minute a man teaches, implies or suggests God can be controlled by man or manipulated by man, false teaching has entered the room. It does not take a quote to make the teaching wrong, it is wrong because it violates the very essence of God.

There are many example of falsehoods taught by man listed on the internet. What would be the point to list one and have everyone that holds to that falsehood argue it's virtue? You are either going to rightly divide scripture or you are not.
And to say God "has to" or God "must" instantly says you have not rightly divided the word. It is that simple.


Rocky

Re: What is faith?

Post by Rocky »

Justaned wrote:
The minute a man teaches, implies or suggests God can be controlled by man or manipulated by man, false teaching has entered the room. It does not take a quote to make the teaching wrong, it is wrong because it violates the very essence of God.
I have never heard anyone on this forum claim that. Who has? Even within the WOF movement they are not teaching that. Again this is just redirect from anti WOF websites. Now if you can show me quotes then maybe I could say you are right but this is just speculation at best to me.. Again may be you could give example were this was said then we can discuss. I will say this, I watched this at 12:30 at night and had church sitting in my recliner with my laptop on my lap
[video][/video]
Last edited by Rocky on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.


cpbeller
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Re: What is faith?

Post by cpbeller »

MUST God keep His covenant? That is my only question about what God must or must not do...MUST He keep His covenant?

Ed is saying He does not, He will keep it, but that He "doesn't have to" keep His covenant...well, that is wrong teaching. God MUST not do anything. I disagree. God made a covenant, and the Bible says that when He made the covenant with Abraham, when there was no other greater to swear by, He swore by Himself that He would keep His covenant. He made a NEW covenant with the God-Man, Jesus, and we are in that New Covenant IN CHRIST...and He MUST keep that covenant. I can call on Him via that covenant, and He MUST answer. Not because I can make God jump and do tricks for me, but because God made a covenant that He MUST keep, and in that covenant, He said that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So, God MUST keep His covenant.
Last edited by cpbeller on Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.


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bibleman
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Re: What is faith?

Post by bibleman »

cpbeller wrote:MUST God keep His covenant? That is my only question about what God must or must not do...MUST He keep His covenant?

Ed is saying He does not, He will keep it, but that He MUST keep His covenat...well, that is wrong teaching. God MUST not do anything. I disagree. God made a covenant, and the Bible says that when He made the covenant with Abraham, when there was no other greater to swear by, He swore by Himself that He would keep His covenant. He made a NEW covenant with the God-Man, Jesus, and we are in that New Covenant IN CHRIST...and He MUST keep that covenant. I can call on Him via that covenant, and He MUST answer. Not because I can make God jump and do tricks for me, but because God made a covenant that He MUST keep, and in that covenant, He said that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So, God MUST keep His covenant.
:angel: :angel:

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

If God breaks His covenant He lies. If He lies He is NOT God. Thus God MUST keep HIS covenant - as He has said.

I have no trouble believing God ot be faithful and true to HIS Word!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note
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macca
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Re: What is faith?

Post by macca »

bibleman wrote:
cpbeller wrote:MUST God keep His covenant? That is my only question about what God must or must not do...MUST He keep His covenant?

Ed is saying He does not, He will keep it, but that He MUST keep His covenat...well, that is wrong teaching. God MUST not do anything. I disagree. God made a covenant, and the Bible says that when He made the covenant with Abraham, when there was no other greater to swear by, He swore by Himself that He would keep His covenant. He made a NEW covenant with the God-Man, Jesus, and we are in that New Covenant IN CHRIST...and He MUST keep that covenant. I can call on Him via that covenant, and He MUST answer. Not because I can make God jump and do tricks for me, but because God made a covenant that He MUST keep, and in that covenant, He said that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So, God MUST keep His covenant.
:angel: :angel:

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

If God breaks His covenant He lies. If He lies He is NOT God. Thus God MUST keep HIS covenant - as He has said.

I have no trouble believing God ot be faithful and true to HIS Word!


:smilecolros:


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Justaned
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Re: What is faith?

Post by Justaned »

cpbeller wrote:MUST God keep His covenant? That is my only question about what God must or must not do...MUST He keep His covenant?

Ed is saying He does not, He will keep it, but that He "doesn't have to" keep His covenant...well, that is wrong teaching. God MUST not do anything. I disagree.
Chris
The difference is our perspectives of God. I see a God that can do anything, you see a God that must answer to someone?

My question is to who would God answer?

God does what He does out of love not because He has too.

I see the motivation of God to be His love for us, His desire for integrity, holiness, righteousness, truth. You see a God that "must" do various things because He spoke them out and doesn't want to be found to be a liar. You paint a picture of God leading humanity like a donkey being lead by a carrot. I see God being followed by humanity because He first loved us and showed it by the sacrifice of His Son. Two different perspectives.

The issue is not over whether something will happen or not. The issue as I see it as what we see as the motivating factors of why God will do it.


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Justaned
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Re: What is faith?

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:
cpbeller wrote:MUST God keep His covenant? That is my only question about what God must or must not do...MUST He keep His covenant?

Ed is saying He does not, He will keep it, but that He MUST keep His covenat...well, that is wrong teaching. God MUST not do anything. I disagree. God made a covenant, and the Bible says that when He made the covenant with Abraham, when there was no other greater to swear by, He swore by Himself that He would keep His covenant. He made a NEW covenant with the God-Man, Jesus, and we are in that New Covenant IN CHRIST...and He MUST keep that covenant. I can call on Him via that covenant, and He MUST answer. Not because I can make God jump and do tricks for me, but because God made a covenant that He MUST keep, and in that covenant, He said that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

So, God MUST keep His covenant.
:angel: :angel:

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

If God breaks His covenant He lies. If He lies He is NOT God.
And who is qualified and appointed the judge of God to make that call? Who would say God is not God? If God answers to no one how would this be a motivating factor to God? God will do it because God wants to do it not because He has to because He doesn't "have to".

If I make a promise to my children do I keep it because I have too? No I made the promise because I love my children and wanted to and fully intended to keep it. I don't "have" to keep it but I do keep it.


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