Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ What is faith?

[bibleman]

Of course it is, but then they go beyond and that is where they get into falsehoods. If you don't go beyond then praise God. You might consider renaming your theology to one that isn't used by people known to go beyond that point.

HI ed,

In what way do they go beyond! I have never heard that.

Got an example?

[Rocky]

Ed: Rocky
Somehow you have missed what I have been saying. Rocky I very much believe in faith and I have seen God move in my life and the life of others in a mighty and powerful ways. I live by faith or more correctly by my trust in God. And yes the scriptures you have quoted are faith scriptures and I don't dismiss them.

Ed I think every one on this board would agree about trusting God.

Ed: What I do, is I do not take god's faith scriptures beyond where God ended them.

Where are they ended at? The bible says all thing are possible to them that believe. Now of course I believe in wisdom and motives. But I don't think anyone on this board has bad motives when it comes to God answering prayers.

Ed: Most faith teachers are 99% percent correct in their teaching on faith. It is the 1% that I object too.

But I see that you object to a higher percentage of that.

Ed: When they suggest God "must" or they teach God "has to"that I object to I also object when they invent formulas that God must "respond" to. I further object when they invent reasons why faith did not occur as they suggested it must.

God responds to faith Even Jesus made statement like "According to your faith" and "Where is your faith" or "thy faith hath made thee whole" as well as Thy faith hath saved thee'and Jesus was even moved by faith we see passages like Jesus seeing their faith and Jesus saw their faith.

Ed: They blame everything but their lousy teaching. They blame sin, lack of faith, doubt and etc. And yes these all hinder faith but God is sovereign and does things in His perfect time to accomplish His purpose In other words it is God that runs things not our faith.

Again "Thy faith hath saved thee', "According to your faith" "thy faith hath made thee whole' but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you, believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them. I think you get the idea. Yes God responds to our faith Ed. Are you right or the Bible?

Ed: So no I don't lack faith, In fact my faith has been tested and proven many many many times. God's goodness has been shown to me many many many times. I have been healed, I have been given my heart's desire and I have seen prayers many prayers answered. I do not question faith at all. What I question is the lousy teaching some expound in the name of faith teaching. Most importantly my faith in God not in my faith.

Ok, I understand. But God is moved by our faith, you cannot even get saved without your faith. And at times cant get healed without your faith. I don't believe that no one ever said that their faith is in themselves and not in God, If that's what you are suggesting. But yes, God is moved by our faith and respond to it. To me it seems that you are so against the WOF movement and the teachings of Dake that in your crusader like fashion, you will a lot of times even contradict the bible just to appear against all of it, even if those teachings line up with scripture..

[Justaned]

Ed: Rocky
Somehow you have missed what I have been saying. Rocky I very much believe in faith and I have seen God move in my life and the life of others in a mighty and powerful ways. I live by faith or more correctly by my trust in God. And yes the scriptures you have quoted are faith scriptures and I don't dismiss them.

Ed I think every one on this board would agree about trusting God.

Ed: What I do, is I do not take god's faith scriptures beyond where God ended them.

Where are they ended at? The bible says all thing are possible to them that believe. Now of course I believe in wisdom and motives. But I don't think anyone on this board has bad motives when it comes to God answering prayers.

Ed: Most faith teachers are 99% percent correct in their teaching on faith. It is the 1% that I object too.

But I see that you object to a higher percentage of that.

Ed: When they suggest God "must" or they teach God "has to"that I object to I also object when they invent formulas that God must "respond" to. I further object when they invent reasons why faith did not occur as they suggested it must.

God responds to faith Even Jesus made statement like "According to your faith" and "Where is your faith" or "thy faith hath made thee whole" as well as Thy faith hath saved thee'and Jesus was even moved by faith we see passages like Jesus seeing their faith and Jesus saw their faith.

Ed: They blame everything but their lousy teaching. They blame sin, lack of faith, doubt and etc. And yes these all hinder faith but God is sovereign and does things in His perfect time to accomplish His purpose In other words it is God that runs things not our faith.

Again "Thy faith hath saved thee', "According to your faith" "thy faith hath made thee whole' but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you, believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them. I think you get the idea. Yes God responds to our faith Ed. Are you right or the Bible?

Ed: So no I don't lack faith, In fact my faith has been tested and proven many many many times. God's goodness has been shown to me many many many times. I have been healed, I have been given my heart's desire and I have seen prayers many prayers answered. I do not question faith at all. What I question is the lousy teaching some expound in the name of faith teaching. Most importantly my faith in God not in my faith.

Ok, I understand. But God is moved by our faith, you cannot even get saved without your faith. And at times cant get healed without your faith. I don't believe that no one ever said that their faith is in themselves and not in God, If that's what you are suggesting. But yes, God is moved by our faith and respond to it. To me it seems that you are so against the WOF movement and the teachings of Dake that in your crusader like fashion, you will a lot of times even contradict the bible just to appear against all of it, even if those teachings line up with scripture..

Rocky as I have repeatedly told you I never denied the importance of faith, or that it was essential in a Chritian's life nor that it wasn't needed to rightly worship God. I never denied healing, miracles, or tongues.

Rocky I don't deny for a moment God requires us to have faith. I deny none of that.
What I deny is the rest of the teaching that is so popularized by false teachers. That twist scripture to make God as a God is required to respond to man's beck and call. If you haven't picked up on that aspect of their teaching either you haven't listened or you are not hearing. (there is a difference)

[bibleman]

Hi ED,

Above you said: "What I deny is the rest of the teaching that is so popularized by false teachers. That twist scripture to make God as a God is required to respond to man's beck and call."

Could you please give a source for that teaching.

I have been WOF for over 30 years and have never heard that.

Please give the source, I have ALL of Hagin's and Copelands books and tapes, a page number please?

[Justaned]

Hi ED,

Above you said: "What I deny is the rest of the teaching that is so popularized by false teachers. That twist scripture to make God as a God is required to respond to man's beck and call."

Could you please give a source for that teaching.

I have been WOF for over 30 years and have never heard that.

Please give the source, I have ALL of Hagin's and Copelands books and tapes, a page number please?

Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?

[bibleman]

Hi ED,

Above you said: "What I deny is the rest of the teaching that is so popularized by false teachers. That twist scripture to make God as a God is required to respond to man's beck and call."

Could you please give a source for that teaching.

I have been WOF for over 30 years and have never heard that.

Please give the source, I have ALL of Hagin's and Copelands books and tapes, a page number please?

Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?

Not asking for a ton or a book just one!

Don' you have even 1 quote to support what you have said?

[cpbeller]

Hi ED,

Above you said: "What I deny is the rest of the teaching that is so popularized by false teachers. That twist scripture to make God as a God is required to respond to man's beck and call."

Could you please give a source for that teaching.

I have been WOF for over 30 years and have never heard that.

Please give the source, I have ALL of Hagin's and Copelands books and tapes, a page number please?

Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?

Would the book be authored by "Hero" Hank Hanagraaf?

[Rocky]

Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?

Ed but the google search only brings up bias websites. Mostly Baptist heresy hunters, seventh day Adventist, church of christ ,mormons and those that adhere to calvinism.(no offence to any Baptist brothers on here)Surely you do not get your info from these websites. Even your favorite http://www.gotquestions.org/ that I have seen you quote from is a Baptist/Calvanitst website. One can always find other heresy hunters on the net. So a google search would not be sufficient enough. You can google search anything and find people to agree with you on any subject, that does not make it right..

[Justaned]

Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?

Ed but the google search only brings up bias websites. Mostly Baptist heresy hunters, seventh day Adventist, church of christ ,mormons and those that adhere to calvinism.(no offence to any Baptist brothers on here)Surely you do not get your info from these websites. Even your favorite http://www.gotquestions.org/ that I have seen you quote from is a Baptist/Calvanitst website. One can always find other heresy hunters on the net. So a google search would not be sufficient enough. You can google search anything and find people to agree with you on any subject, that does not make it right..

Rocky
Who would you expect to critique a theology? The only one qualified would be an apologist, theological scholar or theological student. Surely you don't expect to have WOF theologian critique WOF without bias. And I'm not aware of a neutral secular person qualified to critique a theological matter.
You call the websites bias because you don't agree with them. If a baptist brings them up they surely don't call them biased.
And no I don't get my info from these websites. My info comes from first hand conversation, discussions, conferences, sitting in classes, reading books and viewing videos. But that isn't what Bibleman is after he wants a quote that he can dispute. To what end we all know he is going to disagree with it.

[bibleman]

Oh come on Bibleman we both know there are tons of these quotes on the internet. Just do a google search for false teaching of the Word of Faith. The point is I could produce a book full and you would still deny they are valid. So what is the point?

Ed but the google search only brings up bias websites. Mostly Baptist heresy hunters, seventh day Adventist, church of christ ,mormons and those that adhere to calvinism.(no offence to any Baptist brothers on here)Surely you do not get your info from these websites. Even your favorite http://www.gotquestions.org/ that I have seen you quote from is a Baptist/Calvanitst website. One can always find other heresy hunters on the net. So a google search would not be sufficient enough. You can google search anything and find people to agree with you on any subject, that does not make it right..

Rocky
Who would you expect to critique a theology? The only one qualified would be an apologist, theological scholar or theological student. Surely you don't expect to have WOF theologian critique WOF without bias. And I'm not aware of a neutral secular person qualified to critique a theological matter.
You call the websites bias because you don't agree with them. If a baptist brings them up they surely don't call them biased.
And no I don't get my info from these websites. My info comes from first hand conversation, discussions, conferences, sitting in classes, reading books and viewing videos. But that isn't what Bibleman is after he wants a quote that he can dispute. To what end we all know he is going to disagree with it.

Hi Ed,

now of course you know that I ask for quotes on everything.

If there is no quotes then it is just what Ironman said... he said, you said, I said.

So the fact that you cannot produce a quote shows that it was never said and that it is ONLY what you would have liked for them to have said.

Right?