Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Finis Dake on Positive Confession

[branham1965]

i think the devil counterfeits all the things of God.

so some of the things the mind science cults preach will sound like faith.buts its not the same.its having faith in self in ones mind they say God is mind and mind is God and 101 other crazy things.

in Saint Pauls day false apostles were defying the servant of the living God!!!!


but to confess Gods Word when i feel rotten by His stripes i am healed
no devil-flesh-self im not going to hurt myself im a child of God .Jesus is my Savior and Lord.
no mr.devil you foul liar my family is going to all be saved according to Acts 16.
no devil im not having any cans because my body is the temple of the Holy Ghost.
im going to yield my body unto God as You said Lord in Romans

these confessions of the Word are the secrets of faith.

[Justaned]

What do you think the WORD in Word of Faith means. It means your "words"

Yes Jesus taught this
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Yes I used the red words lol. let me guess, this was added or its not for us but to only those he was talking to at that time

Rocky
I answered you with a high hard one because I wanted you think about it. How many mountains have you moved?

Now that you have had some time let me ask is our faith tested by the mountains we move or the trust we have in God?

God is not into the mountain moving business at this time although scripture does tell us God will one day move mountains.

Today God is in the business of bringing people into relationship with Himself.

Faith is not power force that moves mountains faith enables us to trust God. That God will deliver on all that He said he would do.

What is one thing God can't/won't do on his own?

Force man into relationship with Him.

If God didn't want any sick in this world one sweep of His hand and all would be healed.

If God didn't want us to die one sweep of His hand and we would all lived forever and the graves would give up their dead. That is going to happen on day but that is not what God is doing today.

What God is doing and what was Jesus' work on this earth was bringing man into reconciliation with God.

Our faith can't be in our ability to move mountains. Our faith must be in God. If and when God chooses he will mountains but until then we must trust Him not our faith or the power of our faith.

Do you see the difference? Or are you still trying to move mountains.

[Rocky]

Ed despite your attempts to get me to doubt the words of Jesus, and the bible its not going to happen. I am going to take it and believe it for what it says. For some reason the old hymn "I shall not be moved" comes to mind . I know get thee behind me satan because you are about the things of man and not of God. And as always you try temp people to doubt Gods word. Why do you do this? Did you not even read the scripture? Here it is again ill make it purple and bold this time so you can see it, may be you did not like the red font or something That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith:
Again who is Right Ed or Jesus?

[cpbeller]

That is a blatant lie OR proof you don't know what Word of Faith is. Word of Faith nothing exists until you speak it. Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence. When problems occur they have the choice of speaking them into existence and thus making them a trial or denying them at which point they must go away.

Now tell me that is not what Word of Faith teaches. I have heard that spoken by every word of faith teacher, admittedly not in that many words but that is guise of what they taught. I have read in it Word of Faith books and I myself when I was deceived and teaching Word of Faith taught this idea exactly from Word of Faith textbooks.

It seems Ed that I indeed know what Word of Faith is and YOU are the one that actually doesn't know what it is. Allow me to prove it to you. Here are quotes from two of the most prominent leaders of the movement:

• If you think you're just going to float through life on flowery beds of ease, you've got another thought coming! God never promised you a life without trials. But He has promised you victory in the midst of the trials of life (John 16:33)! (Kenneth E. Hagin, Classic Sermons, p.16)
  
  Some people have the idea that if you live by faith, you can float through life with no problems at all. Forget about that. It will never happen this side of the rapture. (Kenneth Copeland, Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled, http://kcm.org/studycenter/articles/pro ... rheart.php (Last accessed: 22 December, 2004))

So Ed, I think you need to admit to the rest of this forum that you really do not know what you are talking about and then post a copy of your resignation letter from the pastoral ministry for all of us to read.

Of course they say that from time to time they have to because they know people are catching on to their nonsense. But for every time they make a quote like you posted they counter it a hundred times over refuting the idea.

What is word of faith then? You tell me.

So, wait, let get this straight...so that way, it will be on record and everyone (Watchman and Billy, you reading this?). Are you saying that Kenneth Hagin LIED? If you are, then you are saying he was never a Christian (because you seem to hold to this view that a Christian will never "wilfully" sin.) If Hagin LIED to keep ppl from "catching on to their nonsense", that means YOU believe he was a FALSE TEACHER and a LIAR, and according to earlier statements, Kenneth Hagin was never saved, never a Christian.

Is this what you truly do believe? Now, Hagin is Billy's favorite preacher. Watchman even stated to have quite a bit of respect for the man. So are you really saying that Hagin was a liar, and a false teacher (we don't need to discuss Copeland, it is very apparent that you hate that man).

It is interesting that you were given TWO qoutes from the two that were really looked upon as the leaders of the WoF movement, and you called them liars and manipulators...but yet, you continue to not give any evidence other than you saw things that you cannot speak about. Yeah, whatever. It is also interesting how you continue to claim Dake did not mean what he wrote, that Jesus did not mean what He said...Why do you seem to have such a problem with ppl meaning what they say? Mark 11:22-24 is pretty simple to understand, that is, until you and your Calvinistic-MacArthurism comes in to save the day and show us the true way. Ed, I pray for those whom your doctrine and teachings have poisoned, and I pray that they get freedom from you and your teachings. Now, if you are offended by this, "that is your problem, not mine."

[branham1965]

Thank you Chris.Yes He and my Pastor in Warren i love them the most. Reverend Kenneth Erwin Hagin was very close to my heart.his tapes mylife and ministry are incredible.on here Ministry helps i do believe.

That is a blatant lie OR proof you don't know what Word of Faith is. Word of Faith nothing exists until you speak it. Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence. When problems occur they have the choice of speaking them into existence and thus making them a trial or denying them at which point they must go away.

Now tell me that is not what Word of Faith teaches. I have heard that spoken by every word of faith teacher, admittedly not in that many words but that is guise of what they taught. I have read in it Word of Faith books and I myself when I was deceived and teaching Word of Faith taught this idea exactly from Word of Faith textbooks.

It seems Ed that I indeed know what Word of Faith is and YOU are the one that actually doesn't know what it is. Allow me to prove it to you. Here are quotes from two of the most prominent leaders of the movement:

• If you think you're just going to float through life on flowery beds of ease, you've got another thought coming! God never promised you a life without trials. But He has promised you victory in the midst of the trials of life (John 16:33)! (Kenneth E. Hagin, Classic Sermons, p.16)
  
  Some people have the idea that if you live by faith, you can float through life with no problems at all. Forget about that. It will never happen this side of the rapture. (Kenneth Copeland, Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled, http://kcm.org/studycenter/articles/pro ... rheart.php (Last accessed: 22 December, 2004))

So Ed, I think you need to admit to the rest of this forum that you really do not know what you are talking about and then post a copy of your resignation letter from the pastoral ministry for all of us to read.

Of course they say that from time to time they have to because they know people are catching on to their nonsense. But for every time they make a quote like you posted they counter it a hundred times over refuting the idea.

What is word of faith then? You tell me.

So, wait, let get this straight...so that way, it will be on record and everyone (Watchman and Billy, you reading this?). Are you saying that Kenneth Hagin LIED? If you are, then you are saying he was never a Christian (because you seem to hold to this view that a Christian will never "wilfully" sin.) If Hagin LIED to keep ppl from "catching on to their nonsense", that means YOU believe he was a FALSE TEACHER and a LIAR, and according to earlier statements, Kenneth Hagin was never saved, never a Christian.

Is this what you truly do believe? Now, Hagin is Billy's favorite preacher. Watchman even stated to have quite a bit of respect for the man. So are you really saying that Hagin was a liar, and a false teacher (we don't need to discuss Copeland, it is very apparent that you hate that man).

It is interesting that you were given TWO qoutes from the two that were really looked upon as the leaders of the WoF movement, and you called them liars and manipulators...but yet, you continue to not give any evidence other than you saw things that you cannot speak about. Yeah, whatever. It is also interesting how you continue to claim Dake did not mean what he wrote, that Jesus did not mean what He said...Why do you seem to have such a problem with ppl meaning what they say? Mark 11:22-24 is pretty simple to understand, that is, until you and your Calvinistic-MacArthurism comes in to save the day and show us the true way. Ed, I pray for those whom your doctrine and teachings have poisoned, and I pray that they get freedom from you and your teachings. Now, if you are offended by this, "that is your problem, not mine."

[branham1965]

THE BIBLE SAYS JESUS WAS TEMPTED.IN HEBREWS 4 AND 7 PROVE THIS.

TO SAY THE LORD JESUS HAD A SIN NATURE WOULD GET A PERSON ROASTED AT THE STAKE 1500 YEARS AGO.THATS RANK HERESY.
JESUS WAS VERY GOD AND VERY MAN.IN HIS HUMANITY HE WAS TEMPTED.MATT 4 ETC.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH STUDENTS OF THE WORD IS FOLKS FEEL THE NEED TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING IN THE WORD.IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN THIS SIDE OF EDEN.
NO.WE SEE THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY.WE ARE GIVEN WHAT WE NEED.SOME MORE THAN OTHERS BUT ITS STILL IN PART.1 COR 13.

[cpbeller]

Billy...of course Jesus was tempted. And of course Jesus did not have a sin nature. That is my entire point. Ed has stated that it is impossible to be tempted WITHOUT having a sin nature.

If what Ed has said is true, then either the Word is false and Jesus was not truly tempted, or...Jesus had a sin nature.

[bibleman]

Billy...of course Jesus was tempted. And of course Jesus did not have a sin nature. That is my entire point. Ed has stated that it is impossible to be tempted WITHOUT having a sin nature.

If what Ed has said is true, then either the Word is false and Jesus was not truly tempted, or...Jesus had a sin nature.

[Justaned]

That is a blatant lie OR proof you don't know what Word of Faith is. Word of Faith nothing exists until you speak it. Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence. When problems occur they have the choice of speaking them into existence and thus making them a trial or denying them at which point they must go away.

Now tell me that is not what Word of Faith teaches. I have heard that spoken by every word of faith teacher, admittedly not in that many words but that is guise of what they taught. I have read in it Word of Faith books and I myself when I was deceived and teaching Word of Faith taught this idea exactly from Word of Faith textbooks.

It seems Ed that I indeed know what Word of Faith is and YOU are the one that actually doesn't know what it is. Allow me to prove it to you. Here are quotes from two of the most prominent leaders of the movement:

• If you think you're just going to float through life on flowery beds of ease, you've got another thought coming! God never promised you a life without trials. But He has promised you victory in the midst of the trials of life (John 16:33)! (Kenneth E. Hagin, Classic Sermons, p.16)
  
  Some people have the idea that if you live by faith, you can float through life with no problems at all. Forget about that. It will never happen this side of the rapture. (Kenneth Copeland, Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled, http://kcm.org/studycenter/articles/pro ... rheart.php (Last accessed: 22 December, 2004))

So Ed, I think you need to admit to the rest of this forum that you really do not know what you are talking about and then post a copy of your resignation letter from the pastoral ministry for all of us to read.

Of course they say that from time to time they have to because they know people are catching on to their nonsense. But for every time they make a quote like you posted they counter it a hundred times over refuting the idea.

What is word of faith then? You tell me.

So, wait, let get this straight...so that way, it will be on record and everyone (Watchman and Billy, you reading this?). Are you saying that Kenneth Hagin LIED? If you are, then you are saying he was never a Christian (because you seem to hold to this view that a Christian will never "wilfully" sin.) If Hagin LIED to keep ppl from "catching on to their nonsense", that means YOU believe he was a FALSE TEACHER and a LIAR, and according to earlier statements, Kenneth Hagin was never saved, never a Christian.

Is this what you truly do believe? Now, Hagin is Billy's favorite preacher. Watchman even stated to have quite a bit of respect for the man. So are you really saying that Hagin was a liar, and a false teacher (we don't need to discuss Copeland, it is very apparent that you hate that man).

It is interesting that you were given TWO qoutes from the two that were really looked upon as the leaders of the WoF movement, and you called them liars and manipulators...but yet, you continue to not give any evidence other than you saw things that you cannot speak about. Yeah, whatever. It is also interesting how you continue to claim Dake did not mean what he wrote, that Jesus did not mean what He said...Why do you seem to have such a problem with ppl meaning what they say? Mark 11:22-24 is pretty simple to understand, that is, until you and your Calvinistic-MacArthurism comes in to save the day and show us the true way. Ed, I pray for those whom your doctrine and teachings have poisoned, and I pray that they get freedom from you and your teachings. Now, if you are offended by this, "that is your problem, not mine."

The status of a person saved or unsaved is not determined by me and only God and that person knows the answer.
Second I never mentioned any names. I said false teachers will never come out and say I'm a false teacher. They always try to get you to believe they are just as they pretend. Many on the forum pretend to be one thing and are entirely different.
I say if the preacher is not focusing you on God and trust in God and instead focusing you on your own ability then that man is a false teacher. It is as simply as that.
What is the first words in Mark 11:22 Have faith in God, not have faith in your faith. Have faith in God. What does that mean? Does it mean God will serve at our beck and call? NO! Does it mean God will give us what we think we want but he knows full well will destroy us? No! Does it mean we are to move mountains? No!

I'll ask you the same question how many mountains have you moved? Did Jesus really want us to move a mountain when He spoke these words? Yes Jesus said when you ask, ask faith believing. Does that mean you can ask for anything.
James says we ask and don't receive because we ask amiss, to satisfy our flesh. Which is it ask anything and get it or do we pray God's will? Is God's will always what we want? James says we have trials and when we do we should rejoice. Yet most of us rather than rejoicing pray for deliverance. If God gives us that deliverance would that not cheat us out of learning patience?

Here is a great explanation Notice the embolden statement. It is God not our faith that moves the mountains.

However Jesus was not speaking literally, He was rather using "mountain" and "sea" as metaphors. The metaphor "mountain" has its setting in what God, through the prophet Zechariah, told Zerubbabel, who faced insurmountable odds in the finishing of the postexilic temple (Zechariah 4:7-9). To move a mountain was to do the impossible. Jesus was speaking of the power of faith in the face of impossible situations.
"Be thou removed" is in the passive voice, meaning that God is the activator behind the actions. Faith has certain conditions, and Jesus lists two, a negative and a positive. Negatively, one cannot doubt (James 1:5, 6). Doubting evidences indecision in the inner recesses of the heart about whether the prayer will be answered. Positively, one must believe what he is requesting will indeed come to pass. It may also imply indecision concerning what to ask for, whether to make a great or a small request. The faith of which Jesus was speaking is not a faith without works (James 2:20), nor a faith without love (1 Corinthians 13:2).
Thoralf Gilbrant, ed., The Complete Biblical Library – Mark, (Springfield, IL: World Library Press, Inc., 1988), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 315-317.

[Justaned]

Billy...of course Jesus was tempted. And of course Jesus did not have a sin nature. That is my entire point. Ed has stated that it is impossible to be tempted WITHOUT having a sin nature.

If what Ed has said is true, then either the Word is false and Jesus was not truly tempted, or...Jesus had a sin nature.

Having a sin nature is having a propensity to sin. Every human born after the fall in garden has had a propensity to sin.
Jesus is the only one that never gave into that propensity within Him. If Jesus didn't have the propensity to sin then being sinless would be no great accomplishment nor would being tempted. You can only be tempted by something that appeals to you. Nature as I'm using the term and is understood by most people is propensity to sin or inborn desire, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life. If Jesus didn't possess these traits then temptation would be meaningless to Him, it would not be His utmost obedience to the Father but the fact He was numb to the temptation. That is absurd to think.
Of course the temptations appealed to Jesus but because Jesus had the utmost obedience to the Father He never even entertained the idea and rebuked Satan for offering them.