Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Does everything happen for a reason?

[Justaned]

Macca
You are being blessed with falsehoods and half truths. If God isn't in control why do you pray to him to change things?

When Calvinists ask that question it always makes me laugh. I would think that the opposite question should be asked. If God IS in control then why even waste time praying. If God is controlling everything then it would be a waste of my time to ask Him to change anything because if He is controlling everything then things will turn out the way He wants them to whether or not I pray.

On the other hand, if a change does not occur unless I pray then that means that God is not controlling everything because He is only intervening when He is asked to. That means that many things that God wants to happen does not happen because people do not pray. Once again, Calvinistic logic falls flat on its face in the light of Biblical truth and plain common sense.

Your problem is you don't know the difference from being in control and from being controlling.

I never suggestted God was controlling, making everything that occurs happen.

I said nothing that has ever occured surprised God. God always has a plan in place to incorporate our decisions into his plans. He is God and able to do this or do you think not?

My question if you believe God isn't in control, able to take the needed actions to change things then why pray to God to change something

[Justaned]

Again I ask if you really believe God is not in control then why do you pray to God to change things?

If you really believe that only man and/or Satan can control things on earth then why expect God to be able to do anything?

[victoryword]

God Himself says that there is no reason for some things that happen:

• Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” (Job 2:3)

What is so funny is that He said this about JOB'S SITUATION> No divine purpose for it. NO good reason. I believe GOd because He always says the truth. All things do NOT happen for a reason and God is not controlling everything. Question answered discussion over. Advocates of the false doctrine of an all-controlling sovereignty must get before God with weeping and repentance for casting aspersions upon His character.

[Justaned]

God Himself says that there is no reason for some things that happen:

• Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” (Job 2:3)

What is so funny is that He said this about JOB'S SITUATION> No divine purpose for it. NO good reason. I believe GOd because He always says the truth. All things do NOT happen for a reason and God is not controlling everything. Question answered discussion over. Advocates of the false doctrine of an all-controlling sovereignty must get before God with weeping and repentance for casting aspersions upon His character.

God isn't saying this all happened with out reason, he is saying the accuser of the saints brought charges against Job that were groundless.
God knew this and to prove it God allowed Satan to test Job to show all the world that it is possible for man to trust in God even though his whole world is going up in flames.

If there wasn't a reason the Book of Job would not be included in the Bible it was put there for a purpose. For our benefit for those of us that choose to understand what the Book of Job is all about.

[bibleman]

God Himself says that there is no reason for some things that happen:

• Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” (Job 2:3)

What is so funny is that He said this about JOB'S SITUATION> No divine purpose for it. NO good reason. I believe GOd because He always says the truth. All things do NOT happen for a reason and God is not controlling everything. Question answered discussion over. Advocates of the false doctrine of an all-controlling sovereignty must get before God with weeping and repentance for casting aspersions upon His character.

God isn't saying this all happened with out reason, he is saying the accuser of the saints brought charges against Job that were groundless.
God knew this and to prove it God allowed Satan to test Job to show all the world that it is possible for man to trust in God even though his whole world is going up in flames.

If there wasn't a reason the Book of Job would not be included in the Bible it was put there for a purpose. For our benefit for those of us that choose to understand what the Book of Job is all about.

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

[Justaned]

God Himself says that there is no reason for some things that happen:

• Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” (Job 2:3)

What is so funny is that He said this about JOB'S SITUATION> No divine purpose for it. NO good reason. I believe GOd because He always says the truth. All things do NOT happen for a reason and God is not controlling everything. Question answered discussion over. Advocates of the false doctrine of an all-controlling sovereignty must get before God with weeping and repentance for casting aspersions upon His character.

God isn't saying this all happened with out reason, he is saying the accuser of the saints brought charges against Job that were groundless.
God knew this and to prove it God allowed Satan to test Job to show all the world that it is possible for man to trust in God even though his whole world is going up in flames.

If there wasn't a reason the Book of Job would not be included in the Bible it was put there for a purpose. For our benefit for those of us that choose to understand what the Book of Job is all about.

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Bibleman
What are you saying? That is just bad luck? Or perhaps you buy into Islamic Karma?

[bibleman]

God Himself says that there is no reason for some things that happen:

• Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” (Job 2:3)

What is so funny is that He said this about JOB'S SITUATION> No divine purpose for it. NO good reason. I believe GOd because He always says the truth. All things do NOT happen for a reason and God is not controlling everything. Question answered discussion over. Advocates of the false doctrine of an all-controlling sovereignty must get before God with weeping and repentance for casting aspersions upon His character.

God isn't saying this all happened with out reason, he is saying the accuser of the saints brought charges against Job that were groundless.
God knew this and to prove it God allowed Satan to test Job to show all the world that it is possible for man to trust in God even though his whole world is going up in flames.

If there wasn't a reason the Book of Job would not be included in the Bible it was put there for a purpose. For our benefit for those of us that choose to understand what the Book of Job is all about.

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Bibleman
What are you saying? That is just bad luck? Or perhaps you buy into Islamic Karma?

Hi Ed,

Nope not at all. Never memtnioned bad luck or karma.

What I am saying is:

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

[Justaned]

God Himself says that there is no reason for some things that happen:

• Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” (Job 2:3)

What is so funny is that He said this about JOB'S SITUATION> No divine purpose for it. NO good reason. I believe GOd because He always says the truth. All things do NOT happen for a reason and God is not controlling everything. Question answered discussion over. Advocates of the false doctrine of an all-controlling sovereignty must get before God with weeping and repentance for casting aspersions upon His character.

God isn't saying this all happened with out reason, he is saying the accuser of the saints brought charges against Job that were groundless.
God knew this and to prove it God allowed Satan to test Job to show all the world that it is possible for man to trust in God even though his whole world is going up in flames.

If there wasn't a reason the Book of Job would not be included in the Bible it was put there for a purpose. For our benefit for those of us that choose to understand what the Book of Job is all about.

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Bibleman
What are you saying? That is just bad luck? Or perhaps you buy into Islamic Karma?

Hi Ed,

Nope not at all. Never memtnioned bad luck or karma.

What I am saying is:

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

If you are takeing the word "chance" to mean a totally random event then you are talking luck or Karma.
What the writter is saying is, from our perspective things do seem to happen by chance. But if that were really true then it would be pointless to pray for God's future protection, it would be meaningless, since things happen by chance. You also evidently believe God had great luck when he asked Abraham to come out of UR and go to a land that I will show you. God had a fifty chance of Abraham making it. He could have been attacked by thieves and killed. If that were true perhaps God called many men from the city and it was only Abraham that made it. Does that sound like something God was involved in or does it sound like really bad theology to make God a being dependant on chance to have things happen as God desires?

[bibleman]

God Himself says that there is no reason for some things that happen:

• Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.” (Job 2:3)

What is so funny is that He said this about JOB'S SITUATION> No divine purpose for it. NO good reason. I believe GOd because He always says the truth. All things do NOT happen for a reason and God is not controlling everything. Question answered discussion over. Advocates of the false doctrine of an all-controlling sovereignty must get before God with weeping and repentance for casting aspersions upon His character.

God isn't saying this all happened with out reason, he is saying the accuser of the saints brought charges against Job that were groundless.
God knew this and to prove it God allowed Satan to test Job to show all the world that it is possible for man to trust in God even though his whole world is going up in flames.

If there wasn't a reason the Book of Job would not be included in the Bible it was put there for a purpose. For our benefit for those of us that choose to understand what the Book of Job is all about.

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Bibleman
What are you saying? That is just bad luck? Or perhaps you buy into Islamic Karma?

Hi Ed,

Nope not at all. Never memtnioned bad luck or karma.

What I am saying is:

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

If you are takeing the word "chance" to mean a totally random event then you are talking luck or Karma.
What the writter is saying is, from our perspective things do seem to happen by chance. But if that were really true then it would be pointless to pray for God's future protection, it would be meaningless, since things happen by chance. You also evidently believe God had great luck when he asked Abraham to come out of UR and go to a land that I will show you. God had a fifty chance of Abraham making it. He could have been attacked by thieves and killed. If that were true perhaps God called many men from the city and it was only Abraham that made it. Does that sound like something God was involved in or does it sound like really bad theology to make God a being dependant on chance to have things happen as God desires?

Hi Ed,

Where does the writer say in that verse? "from our perspective things do seem to happen by chance.'

I didn't see that, could you point it out to me?

[victoryword]

God isn't saying this all happened with out reason, he is saying the accuser of the saints brought charges against Job that were groundless.
God knew this and to prove it God allowed Satan to test Job to show all the world that it is possible for man to trust in God even though his whole world is going up in flames.

If there wasn't a reason the Book of Job would not be included in the Bible it was put there for a purpose. For our benefit for those of us that choose to understand what the Book of Job is all about.

Ed, I am beginning to wonder if English is a second language to you since the plain meaning of God's Words in English appears to be foreign to you or if you have some inside track to God's book of reinterpreting His plain statements. God plainly says that what happened was for no good reason but you tell us that there was and tell us what the reason was without citing one passage to prove it.

Either God is giving you some information that He does not care to share with the rest of us mere mortals or you just keep contradicting Him.

Why the desperation Ed? What are you getting out of arguing your asinine fatalistic logic? What is your reward for this?