Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Finis Dake on Positive Confession

[bibleman]

This statement alone shows me that you know NOTHING about Word of Faith teaching. Ed, you have really and truly shown your ignorance here No WoF teacher has ever taught that Christians should not have trials. On the contrary, every one that I have listened to has stated that we are guaranteed to have them. Seriously Ed, are you ever concerned about how Jesus feels about you misrepresenting the beliefs of others? If you are going to fight against "false teachers" you really should find out what they actually teach first.

That is a blatant lie OR proof you don't know what Word of Faith is. Word of Faith nothing exists until you speak it. Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence. When problems occur they have the choice of speaking them into existence and thus making them a trial or denying them at which point they must go away.

Now tell me that is not what Word of Faith teaches. I have heard that spoken by every word of faith teacher, admittedly not in that many words but that is guise of what they taught. I have read in it Word of Faith books and I myself when I was deceived and teaching Word of Faith taught this idea exactly from Word of Faith textbooks.

Hi Ed,

Ed that is nuts, by your very comments you show that you know nothing about WOF teaching or doctrine. How you can say such laughable stuff and still type is beyond me.

Above you said: "Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence."

I have never heard that taught in my over 30 years of being WOF!

Produce a quote from the WOF leaders that say such a thing? either from book and page number or sound clip on the internet.

Nuts??????? Perhaps it is you that are nuts claiming to be Word of Faith and not understanding it's primary teaching.
What do you think the WORD in Word of Faith means. It means your "words" of faith or doubt create the realities you live, experience and must endure in.
That is the metaphysical part of the Word of Faith teaching I so hate. I have seen people Word of Faith people get up and leave a church because in their words the pastor was teaching heresy. His teaching David's Psalm 34 in particular
Psalm 34:19 (NKJV)
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Along with James 1:2-3 (NKJV)
2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

I have seen it I have experienced it, that is the exact teaching of the Word of Faith that I so hate because it is a false hood.

Every Every Every Word of Faith Teacher teaches this lie in some form or fashion or they aren't truly Word of Faith for that is the defining essence of the WORD of FAITH.

Ed,

OK where is the quote?

I see you have given none - proving my point - YOU don't know what you are talking about.

I leave you with this Scripture that you disobey!

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

[bibleman]

That is a blatant lie OR proof you don't know what Word of Faith is. Word of Faith nothing exists until you speak it. Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence. When problems occur they have the choice of speaking them into existence and thus making them a trial or denying them at which point they must go away.

Now tell me that is not what Word of Faith teaches. I have heard that spoken by every word of faith teacher, admittedly not in that many words but that is guise of what they taught. I have read in it Word of Faith books and I myself when I was deceived and teaching Word of Faith taught this idea exactly from Word of Faith textbooks.

It seems Ed that I indeed know what Word of Faith is and YOU are the one that actually doesn't know what it is. Allow me to prove it to you. Here are quotes from two of the most prominent leaders of the movement:

• If you think you're just going to float through life on flowery beds of ease, you've got another thought coming! God never promised you a life without trials. But He has promised you victory in the midst of the trials of life (John 16:33)! (Kenneth E. Hagin, Classic Sermons, p.16)
  
  Some people have the idea that if you live by faith, you can float through life with no problems at all. Forget about that. It will never happen this side of the rapture. (Kenneth Copeland, Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled, http://kcm.org/studycenter/articles/pro ... rheart.php (Last accessed: 22 December, 2004))

So Ed, I think you need to admit to the rest of this forum that you really do not know what you are talking about and then post a copy of your resignation letter from the pastoral ministry for all of us to read.

[branham1965]

im in tears. i loved it.

Anyway, just a bunch of rambling by me, hope it helps you.

I thought it was an excellent ramble

[Rocky]

What do you think the WORD in Word of Faith means. It means your "words"

Yes Jesus taught this
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Yes I used the red words lol. let me guess, this was added or its not for us but to only those he was talking to at that time

[Justaned]

That is a blatant lie OR proof you don't know what Word of Faith is. Word of Faith nothing exists until you speak it. Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence. When problems occur they have the choice of speaking them into existence and thus making them a trial or denying them at which point they must go away.

Now tell me that is not what Word of Faith teaches. I have heard that spoken by every word of faith teacher, admittedly not in that many words but that is guise of what they taught. I have read in it Word of Faith books and I myself when I was deceived and teaching Word of Faith taught this idea exactly from Word of Faith textbooks.

It seems Ed that I indeed know what Word of Faith is and YOU are the one that actually doesn't know what it is. Allow me to prove it to you. Here are quotes from two of the most prominent leaders of the movement:

• If you think you're just going to float through life on flowery beds of ease, you've got another thought coming! God never promised you a life without trials. But He has promised you victory in the midst of the trials of life (John 16:33)! (Kenneth E. Hagin, Classic Sermons, p.16)
  
  Some people have the idea that if you live by faith, you can float through life with no problems at all. Forget about that. It will never happen this side of the rapture. (Kenneth Copeland, Let Not Your Heart Be Troubled, http://kcm.org/studycenter/articles/pro ... rheart.php (Last accessed: 22 December, 2004))

So Ed, I think you need to admit to the rest of this forum that you really do not know what you are talking about and then post a copy of your resignation letter from the pastoral ministry for all of us to read.

Of course they say that from time to time they have to because they know people are catching on to their nonsense. But for every time they make a quote like you posted they counter it a hundred times over refuting the idea.

What is word of faith then? You tell me.

[Justaned]

This statement alone shows me that you know NOTHING about Word of Faith teaching. Ed, you have really and truly shown your ignorance here No WoF teacher has ever taught that Christians should not have trials. On the contrary, every one that I have listened to has stated that we are guaranteed to have them. Seriously Ed, are you ever concerned about how Jesus feels about you misrepresenting the beliefs of others? If you are going to fight against "false teachers" you really should find out what they actually teach first.

That is a blatant lie OR proof you don't know what Word of Faith is. Word of Faith nothing exists until you speak it. Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence. When problems occur they have the choice of speaking them into existence and thus making them a trial or denying them at which point they must go away.

Now tell me that is not what Word of Faith teaches. I have heard that spoken by every word of faith teacher, admittedly not in that many words but that is guise of what they taught. I have read in it Word of Faith books and I myself when I was deceived and teaching Word of Faith taught this idea exactly from Word of Faith textbooks.

Hi Ed,

Ed that is nuts, by your very comments you show that you know nothing about WOF teaching or doctrine. How you can say such laughable stuff and still type is beyond me.

Above you said: "Trials do not come to Word of Faith people if they keep their positive confession and never speak trials into existence."

I have never heard that taught in my over 30 years of being WOF!

Produce a quote from the WOF leaders that say such a thing? either from book and page number or sound clip on the internet.

Nuts??????? Perhaps it is you that are nuts claiming to be Word of Faith and not understanding it's primary teaching.
What do you think the WORD in Word of Faith means. It means your "words" of faith or doubt create the realities you live, experience and must endure in.
That is the metaphysical part of the Word of Faith teaching I so hate. I have seen people Word of Faith people get up and leave a church because in their words the pastor was teaching heresy. His teaching David's Psalm 34 in particular
Psalm 34:19 (NKJV)
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.

Along with James 1:2-3 (NKJV)
2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

I have seen it I have experienced it, that is the exact teaching of the Word of Faith that I so hate because it is a false hood.

Every Every Every Word of Faith Teacher teaches this lie in some form or fashion or they aren't truly Word of Faith for that is the defining essence of the WORD of FAITH.

Ed,

OK where is the quote?

I see you have given none - proving my point - YOU don't know what you are talking about.

I leave you with this Scripture that you disobey!

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

I will ask you the same question then what doctrine makes Word of Faith so distinctive from other Pentecostal doctrine?
What one teaching separates the two? What is the reason most cited by faith believing, faith teaching pastors give as being the reason they object to Word of Faith heresy?

Why is Word of Faith closely aligned and often used in the same breath as Metaphysics?

[victoryword]

Of course they say that from time to time they have to because they know people are catching on to their nonsense. But for every time they make a quote like you posted they counter it a hundred times over refuting the idea.

What is word of faith then? You tell me.

Wow Ed, you can't prove that the WoF teaches something and when quotes are given showing that they don't teach what you claim that they do and this is your response? That's pretty sad Ed. You are really the type of person who will call a red truck green and will argue that the red truck is green even if we presented you with certified government documents stating clearly that the truck you keep calling green is actually red. I hope that I never become like this Ed because it is a sad place to be in when you feel that you HAVE to be right regardless of the evidence in front of you that states otherwise.

"Word of Faith" is exactly what Paul said it was as Pastor Bible quoted to you earlier in Romans 10:8-10. God's Word (the RHEMA) imparts faith for every circumstance and situation that we are confronted with. When we are confronted with any attack of the devil then we take our stand on God's Word as Paul taught in Ephesians 6. But the spiritual warfare thread already proved that plain Scripture means nothing to you.

[victoryword]

I will ask you the same question then what doctrine makes Word of Faith so distinctive from other Pentecostal doctrine?
What one teaching separates the two? What is the reason most cited by faith believing, faith teaching pastors give as being the reason they object to Word of Faith heresy?

Why is Word of Faith closely aligned and often used in the same breath as Metaphysics?

Ed

I am sure that Bibleman will respond to you, allow me to remind you of something I have said numerous times: Word of Faith is primarily Classic Holiness, Faith-Cure, and Pentecostal Teaching. Put down the Hank Hanegraaff and D. R. McConnell and John MacArthur books and listen for once. AG pioneers such as PC Nelson, Liilian B. Yeomans, Cornelius Nuzum, Smith Wigglesworth, Carrie Judd Montgomery, etc. have taught all of the principles of faith that are taught in the movement today. Here is a quote from AoG missionary Cornelius Nuzum:

• To believe only what you see and feel is not faith at all – that is knowledge. Faith never deals with anything but the unseen and the unfelt. You are to call the “things which be not as though they were.” Rom. 4:17. Believe that the devil and the disease have gone, that healing and soundness do now take their place and that you are well. (Nuzum, The Life of Faith, p. 62)

Long before Ms. Nuzum, Holiness and Higher-Life teachers such as A. B. Simpson, George Peck, William Boardman, F. B. Meyer, Andrew Murray, A. J. Gordon, S. D. Gordon, Hannah Whitall Smith, S. B. Shaw, Watchman Nee, and many others taught these principles that you claim are borrowed from metaphysical cults. But I know you're not concerned about the truth Ed. You just simply want to be right and the rest of us wrong. Your last several posts almost make me want to cry for you Ed because I don't understand how someone can be this bitter and hardened. Oh well, on with the debate.

(Note to self: Have to be patient with Ed and keep teaching him over and over again. He might just get it one day if I persevere).

[Justaned]

I will ask you the same question then what doctrine makes Word of Faith so distinctive from other Pentecostal doctrine?
What one teaching separates the two? What is the reason most cited by faith believing, faith teaching pastors give as being the reason they object to Word of Faith heresy?

Why is Word of Faith closely aligned and often used in the same breath as Metaphysics?

Ed

I am sure that Bibleman will respond to you, allow me to remind you of something I have said numerous times: Word of Faith is primarily Classic Holiness, Faith-Cure, and Pentecostal Teaching. Put down the Hank Hanegraaff and D. R. McConnell and John MacArthur books and listen for once. AG pioneers such as PC Nelson, Liilian B. Yeomans, Cornelius Nuzum, Smith Wigglesworth, Carrie Judd Montgomery, etc. have taught all of the principles of faith that are taught in the movement today. Here is a quote from AoG missionary Cornelius Nuzum:

• To believe only what you see and feel is not faith at all – that is knowledge. Faith never deals with anything but the unseen and the unfelt. You are to call the “things which be not as though they were.” Rom. 4:17. Believe that the devil and the disease have gone, that healing and soundness do now take their place and that you are well. (Nuzum, The Life of Faith, p. 62)

Long before Ms. Nuzum, Holiness and Higher-Life teachers such as A. B. Simpson, George Peck, William Boardman, F. B. Meyer, Andrew Murray, A. J. Gordon, S. D. Gordon, Hannah Whitall Smith, S. B. Shaw, Watchman Nee, and many others taught these principles that you claim are borrowed from metaphysical cults. But I know you're not concerned about the truth Ed. You just simply want to be right and the rest of us wrong. Your last several posts almost make me want to cry for you Ed because I don't understand how someone can be this bitter and hardened. Oh well, on with the debate.

(Note to self: Have to be patient with Ed and keep teaching him over and over again. He might just get it one day if I persevere).

That is incorrect holiness and Pentecostal teaching including healing is not Word of Faith. You either don't know there is a difference which I strongly suspect or you refuse to do critical thinking about Word of Faith false teachers are telling you. They mention faith you like faith so you buy what they are selling. However what they are selling is not holiness alone, nor is Pentecostalism. They add another element speaking things into and out of existence.

[Justaned]

What do you think the WORD in Word of Faith means. It means your "words"

Yes Jesus taught this
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Yes I used the red words lol. let me guess, this was added or its not for us but to only those he was talking to at that time

Rocky which mountain have you moved? Did you have problems getting it to the sea of did you run into other mountains being cast into the sea? Think about what Jesus with your spirit instead of letting you head read it to you.

This is the first time I saw you quote Jesus words so if you use words in red alot I don't know when.