Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ KEEP REPENTING OR ETERNAL SECURITY?

[bibleman]

So are you saying that you no longer have need of Jesus as an advocate for sin?

That is correct.
His advocacy was effective in that by Him I was made free from sin.
Praise be to God!

OK... my friend lets get real...
Now you know that from the time you accepted Jesus as your saviour until now.... that you have sinned at least one time.
Right?

Wrong.
By the grace of God and power of the Holy Spirit I have "kept the faith".

How long have you been saved?

[Hill Top]

How long have you been saved?
[/quote]

My salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement.
I repented of sin 15 years ago.

[bibleman]

How long have you been saved?

My salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement.
I repented of sin 15 years ago.
[/quote]

OK... so then for 15 years you have NEVER not one time.

Had a bad thought...
Said a harsh or mean word...
Failed to witness to someone...
Not be considerate of someone as you should have been...
Failed to read your Bible for one single day in 15 years...
Failed to pray for one single day in 15 years...

NOT one time of sin..

Is that what you are saying?

[Hill Top]

OK... so then for 15 years you have NEVER not one time.

Had a bad thought...
Said a harsh or mean word...
Failed to witness to someone...
Not be considerate of someone as you should have been...
Failed to read your Bible for one single day in 15 years...
Failed to pray for one single day in 15 years...

I have been tempted...if that is a "bad thought".
Harsh words? Yes, when it was necessary.
Not considerate? No.
Failed to witness? Not when I can or it is needed.
Failed to read, though that isn't a sin...no.
Failed to pray, no. In fact I can't even imagine that one.

NOT one time of sin..
Is that what you are saying?

Not once.
You make Christianity a "Mission Impossible" scenario.
It isn't.
God wants us to be victorious, in Him. And He has given us everything we need to accomplish it, to His own glory.
I mean, really, He parted the Red Sea for crying out loud.
How hard is it to supply what men need to resist the devil?
We got repentance, to turn from sin.
We got baptism. Not only for the remission of past sins, but to kill the old man and be raised with Christ and to walk in newness of life...reborn of Godly seed that cannot be corrupted.
We have His words to guide and protect us.
Pastors, deacons, and prophets. Fellowship. Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
And verses like..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Our God created this world, and the means to be winners...not losers.

[luchnia]

OK... so then for 15 years you have NEVER not one time.

Had a bad thought...
Said a harsh or mean word...
Failed to witness to someone...
Not be considerate of someone as you should have been...
Failed to read your Bible for one single day in 15 years...
Failed to pray for one single day in 15 years...

I have been tempted...if that is a "bad thought".
Harsh words? Yes, when it was necessary.
Not considerate? No.
Failed to witness? Not when I can or it is needed.
Failed to read, though that isn't a sin...no.
Failed to pray, no. In fact I can't even imagine that one.

NOT one time of sin..
Is that what you are saying?

Not once.
You make Christianity a "Mission Impossible" scenario.
It isn't.
God wants us to be victorious, in Him. And He has given us everything we need to accomplish it, to His own glory.
I mean, really, He parted the Red Sea for crying out loud.
How hard is it to supply what men need to resist the devil?
We got repentance, to turn from sin.
We got baptism. Not only for the remission of past sins, but to kill the old man and be raised with Christ and to walk in newness of life...reborn of Godly seed that cannot be corrupted.
We have His words to guide and protect us.
Pastors, deacons, and prophets. Fellowship. Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
And verses like..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Our God created this world, and the means to be winners...not losers.

I applaud you for holding your ground when it comes to refusing sin and living the victorious life in Christ, and knowing that one with God's seed cannot sin, however not understanding that one can fall away to sin and serve satan (another seed) refutes God's word on the matter. As been pointed out before, understanding God's seed and how it works will shed light on it, but if that light is not allowed it cannot be received.

You are 100% correct in stating that we have His words to guide and protect us, not part of His word, but all of His word as is the case in John's writings and all the other. A part is not a whole just as a verse is not the whole. A part should guide you in and to the whole, but can never be the whole. Grasping the whole requires knowing the part is only a part of the whole and seeing the whole by the Spirit. One will never receive the whole as long as they only see the part.

[bibleman]

OK... so then for 15 years you have NEVER not one time.

Had a bad thought...
Said a harsh or mean word...
Failed to witness to someone...
Not be considerate of someone as you should have been...
Failed to read your Bible for one single day in 15 years...
Failed to pray for one single day in 15 years...

I have been tempted...if that is a "bad thought".
Harsh words? Yes, when it was necessary.
Not considerate? No.
Failed to witness? Not when I can or it is needed.
Failed to read, though that isn't a sin...no.
Failed to pray, no. In fact I can't even imagine that one.

NOT one time of sin..
Is that what you are saying?

Not once.
You make Christianity a "Mission Impossible" scenario.
It isn't.
God wants us to be victorious, in Him. And He has given us everything we need to accomplish it, to His own glory.
I mean, really, He parted the Red Sea for crying out loud.
How hard is it to supply what men need to resist the devil?
We got repentance, to turn from sin.
We got baptism. Not only for the remission of past sins, but to kill the old man and be raised with Christ and to walk in newness of life...reborn of Godly seed that cannot be corrupted.
We have His words to guide and protect us.
Pastors, deacons, and prophets. Fellowship. Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
And verses like..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Our God created this world, and the means to be winners...not losers.

OK - Of course I agree that we are to live a life WITHOUT sin.
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man shall see the Lord in Hebrews 12:14.
AND yes we are to be victorious.
AND I remember over and over again the Book of Revelation tells us we are to be OVERCOMERS.
ALL true...

But being very honest here.... I made Jesus Lord of my life in OCtober of 1975.
And from them until now, I would be lying if I said I had not sinned or missed the mark a number of times. (44 years after all)
Sadly I have... but without (when convicted of the Holy Spirit and being made aware of my sin) I asked for forgiveness every time. And I walk in the joy of my salvation today and wonderful fellowship with the Lord who is my best friend.

Examples I hate to mention... During this time I have wasted time, failed to witness, not put God first on a few occasions, when younger I had a bad temper, even lied when under pressure years ago, let my ego get the best of me thru pride.

What I am saying is in my 44 years of living for Christ - I have sinned. It is not a practice - but I have missed the mark.

BUT you on the other hand say that you have never sinned or missed the mark ONE single time in 15 years.

It seems that you were born again FULLY mature... with ALL the fullness of God... in EVERY single Christian grace... and have lived a PERFECT life for over 15 years.

Let me say 1 of 2 things...

1) CONGRATULATIONS! You are the ONE and ONLY person I have ever met (in over 44 years of interacting with Christians) who has never sinned since their salvation experience. And have lived this complete and perfect victory for over 15 years. I take my hat off to you. You are a better man than I am... A better man than my godly grandfather was... A better man that TL Osborn... BIlly Graham... Charles Stanley... Kenneth Hagin... A better man than every person I have ever met... A better man that ALL the heroes of the Bible... In fact YOU and JESUS stand alone in the history of the world as being sin free!

OR

2) You are NOT being honest with us. (Even people like Paul, James and John, and Peter, PLUS OT saints like King David, Samson, Abraham etc all missed the mark.) Yet you make the claim you have never sinned since your salvation experience. That is just too much to believe.

NOW I don't know you and would in no way attempt to judge your heart and relationship before God. SO forgive me when I say option 2 above seems to be the case.

PS: Just thought of something... You have never had to say "forgive me" to anybody since your salvation, You have NEVER had to say "you are sorry" even one time since you were saved. You have never raised your voice or said even one word that ever hurt someone else's feelings.

[luchnia]

Hill Top, Earlier I asked you, "Hilltop, did you know what you were getting into when you gave your life to Christ? Did you have many false starts? Were you an "unsaved christian" (small c) for many days, years before you made your final commitment to God? Maybe this is what you are saying??

It is important to understand that one born of God does not commit sin. The term unsaved christian is what would be called an oxymoron. So the question can be asked, what happens to the seed of God when a child of God falls and chooses to serve sin and its master? Are they still saved in sin? I have oft found this fascinating how the human psyche works and the first chapter of James shows us exactly how sin occurs in a person based on their own choice in the matter.

The math is simple and reminds me of the old saying, "It is so simple a child could understand it." Enduring temptation can take all of one's spiritual muscles and preparedness. There is no mistake that a sinner does not serve God if we are to believe what Paul says in Romans and whom one yields to and who the children of the devil are.

They are certainly not an "unsaved christian", but plainly unsaved and serving satan because of their choice to give lust birth to sin and they are in need of repentance and be renewed again (born once more) unto eternal life. Praise God that if (not when) any man sin he has an advocate with the Father - the One whom can advocate on our behalf.

[Hill Top]

Hilltop, the only way a person could be saved and not sin the next 24 hours would be if he spent a large amount of time studying the word and thereby renewed his mind BEFORE BEING BORN AGAIN,...

Or, they could hear how far off the mark they were and were so sorrowful for their previous sins they vowed never to sin again.
I was so sick and tired of being sick and tired. So sorry for hurting so many others, not to mention myself. I was desperate for the way to not ever offend God, or those I loved, again.
And I heard 1 Peter 3:21 being read at my first visit to a different church.
I wanted that "good conscience before God" more than life itself.

... but things just done happen that way. People hear the word, are convicted by the word and the working of the Holy Spirit and make Jesus their Lord and Savior. At this point they don't even know how many ways one can sin, not to mention how holy God is and how high his standards are.

I had been raised catholic, with 8 years in their grade school, so I knew "about" God. Though I didn't know it at the time, I can look back now and see that they were living the OT, Jew style of life...and religion. IE, sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone, without end.
When I learned men don't have to break their repentance of sin I was elated.
When I learned that the folks at the church I initially visited didn't say CRAP like "nobodies perfect" and, "everybody commits sin", etc, I knew I was hearing from God.

Has anyone ever heard a preacher give an alter call but tell his listeners, Please don't give your life to Christ unless you are sure you will never sin again? Wouldn't that be the honest way to make an alter call?

Aren't "giving your life to God" and "making Jesus your Lord" the same thing?
How can Jesus be "your Lord" if you are still serving sin?
Honest, of God, preachers should be saying exactly what you mention.

Hilltop, did you know what you were getting into when you gave your life to Christ? Did you have many false starts? Were you an "unsaved christian" (small c) for many days, years before you made your final commitment to God? Maybe this is what you are saying??

I never heard the phrase "give your life to Christ" till I went visiting other small churches with the message of obedience to God and victory over the devil and sin.
But all the folks who had apparently already "given their lives to God" hated hearing a message of complete submission to Him.
As I wrote earlier, I was raised in religion and always thought I would be saved on the day of judgement. But I had been fooled by the devil, almost fatally.
Thankfully, God doesn't leave the one's who really want to love, out in the dark.

Thanks for indulging all of our questions, Dolph

No prob'...I live for this.

[Hill Top]

I applaud you for holding your ground when it comes to refusing sin and living the victorious life in Christ, and knowing that one with God's seed cannot sin, however not understanding that one can fall away to sin and serve satan (another seed) refutes God's word on the matter.

No, it doesn't.
If God's seed is in one, they cannot commit sin.
If they sin, they didn't have the seed of God in them. No matter what may have seemed likely before the sin.
That is very clear to me.
Apple trees cannot bear onions.
Seed can not bring forth fruit of some other seed.

As been pointed out before, understanding God's seed and how it works will shed light on it, but if that light is not allowed it cannot be received.

You may not realize it but you are inferring that God's seed CAN bring forth the fruit of devilish seed.

You are 100% correct in stating that we have His words to guide and protect us, not part of His word, but all of His word as is the case in John's writings and all the other. A part is not a whole just as a verse is not the whole. A part should guide you in and to the whole, but can never be the whole. Grasping the whole requires knowing the part is only a part of the whole and seeing the whole by the Spirit. One will never receive the whole as long as they only see the part.

You had better re-examine your POV.

It is written..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)

[Hill Top]

OK - Of course I agree that we are to live a life WITHOUT sin.
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man shall see the Lord in Hebrews 12:14.
AND yes we are to be victorious.
AND I remember over and over again the Book of Revelation tells us we are to be OVERCOMERS.
ALL true...

But being very honest here.... I made Jesus Lord of my life in OCtober of 1975.
And from them until now, I would be lying if I said I had not sinned or missed the mark a number of times. (44 years after all)
Sadly I have... but without (when convicted of the Holy Spirit and being made aware of my sin) I asked for forgiveness every time. And I walk in the joy of my salvation today and wonderful fellowship with the Lord who is my best friend.

Too bad you had to change lanes with "BUT".
"Of course...", and "The bible teaches...", and "Yes we are to be...", and "I remember..."; BUT your life doesn't show it so it can't be true?
Did you know you could live without sin in 1975? Were any of the teachers around you living such a life as examples to the sheep?
If "my" message would have been presented to you by witnesses of the truth would you have "accepted Jesus" in 1975?
You said YES a few times but now defend NO.???

xamples I hate to mention... During this time I have wasted time, failed to witness, not put God first on a few occasions, when younger I had a bad temper, even lied when under pressure years ago, let my ego get the best of me thru pride.
What I am saying is in my 44 years of living for Christ - I have sinned. It is not a practice - but I have missed the mark.
BUT you on the other hand say that you have never sinned or missed the mark ONE single time in 15 years.
It seems that you were born again FULLY mature... with ALL the fullness of God... in EVERY single Christian grace... and have lived a PERFECT life for over 15 years.

I was born again...of different seed!
I cannot bear the fruit of any other seed.'
Of course I have grown in grace and knowledge, but God won't allow men to be tempted above what they are able to endure...(1 Cor 10:13)

1) CONGRATULATIONS! You are the ONE and ONLY person I have ever met (in over 44 years of interacting with Christians) who has never sinned since their salvation experience. And have lived this complete and perfect victory for over 15 years. I take my hat off to you. You are a better man than I am... A better man than my godly grandfather was... A better man that TL Osborn... BIlly Graham... Charles Stanley... Kenneth Hagin... A better man than every person I have ever met... A better man that ALL the heroes of the Bible... In fact YOU and JESUS stand alone in the history of the world as being sin free!

I adjure you in the name of Jesus Christ to follow the example of Christ Jesus who while in the skin committed no sins.
"Be ye holy for I am holy".

OR
2) You are NOT being honest with us. (Even people like Paul, James and John, and Peter, PLUS OT saints like King David, Samson, Abraham etc all missed the mark.) Yet you make the claim you have never sinned since your salvation experience. That is just too much to believe.

Show the sin of any reborn apostle or prophet.
I'll deal with it.
The OT men were all constrained to live in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
The practically had to commit sin.
In the NT, we have been allowed a way to kill the old man and be raised again with Christ to walk in newness of life...not sameness of life.

NOW I don't know you and would in no way attempt to judge your heart and relationship before God. SO forgive me when I say option 2 above seems to be the case.
PS: Just thought of something... You have never had to say "forgive me" to anybody since your salvation, You have NEVER had to say "you are sorry" even one time since you were saved. You have never raised your voice or said even one word that ever hurt someone else's feelings.

All you are doing is looking for latitude in a Christ like life.
Loop-holes in righteousness.
You are not the first, and unfortunately won't be the last either.
I've apologized for mistakes and misreads about people, but not for anything that was a premeditated, lust satisfying, enticement or temptation to do evil.
If you want to be "only human", quit calling yourself a Christian.
You will manifest the fruit of the seed that you are of.