Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Strange signs!

[macca]

Hey Ed, I was a Christian spirit filled when I was younger, even spoke in tongues, I was Born again. I was even baptized in the Holy Ghost. Then I turned my back on God and later became an atheist, then lived a life of addiction and debauchery just like the Prodigal son. But praise God, years later The lord came back into my life and restored me, delivered me supernaturally from various addictions. How do you explain this? Was I not saved before I backslid?

I know a man in Christ, who was a saved man for many years and backslid for a while.

One day he woke up saved, gloriously saved praising God.

Now, i know this man personaly and his life story very well, He is alive and well with Jesus now, but his life is his testimony and my respect for him is endless.

macca

[frad70]

Justaned - no, I don't care about what Paul said unless it was recorded in the B'rit Hadashah.

[Watchman2013]

Hey Ed, I was a Christian spirit filled when I was younger, even spoke in tongues, I was Born again. I was even baptized in the Holy Ghost. Then I turned my back on God and later became an atheist, then lived a life of addiction and debauchery just like the Prodigal son. But praise God, years later The lord came back into my life and restored me, delivered me supernaturally from various addictions. How do you explain this? Was I not saved before I backslid?

Rocky
How do you explain it in light of what we have discussed in Hebrews 6 and 10.

You keep telling me I misunderstand these passage but yet they are very clear, they don't contain any play on words, metaphors or any special figures of speech. They simply say what they say. So how do I misunderstand them?

Or

Could it be you misunderstand what it means to be saved? Or could it be you misunderstand what it takes for you to loose that salvation?

Good Morning, Justaned,

I, too, know people like Rocky. They EAT, DRINK, BREATHE, WALK, AND LIVE The Word of God. They Practice The Presence of God, for to them, He is as real, as you or I. They preach Jesus with a love and passion that is a true joy to behold.. Everything they say, write, or do, they've dedicated to serving God, bearing "good fruit."

In reading Hebrews, Chapters 6 & 10, one could almost become so bereft of hope, losing sight of the prize of The High Calling of God, as to become moribund, totally ineffective, and no longer desirous of Life. But God, in His Love, Mercy, Grace, and Kindness, won''t let go of them... They are recipients of the knowledge that God has heard their cries, and as Sovereign, has heard, listened to, and acted upon their confessions, repentance, and appeals for forgiveness and restoration...

Do I have Book, Chapter, and Verse to back this up? Not completely, no, not at this time... Right now, I'm doing something that may be frowned upon- "flying by the seat of my pants," and going by "a wing and a prayer." (This has to be God, because I hate flying, and only look forward to The Rapture.)

in reading Hebrews 11 through 13, as well as other passages in The Word of God, I see the need God has for ministries like Rocky's. "Been there, done that, had the T-shirt, and now have the scars to prove it,' experience is sometimes just what God needs to reach what might be called, "special cases." If you like, think of Rocky, and others like him, as a member of God's Spiritual Special Forces. He, and they, have truly been tested, and proven, in The Cleansing Fire of God's Holiness.

Why would God preserve Rocky, and others, seen as "beyond the pale" by some? The answer is simple. It is not God's desire, or will, that ANY should perish... God's Spiritual Special Forces can reach out to those who may be in circumstances similar to those experienced by Rocky and others, who've been in The Refiner's Fire. The dross of this world has been separated from what was, and now, is...

I can only go by what God puts in my heart, what His Spirit bears witness to, and by what illumination He gives me in His Word... I'm a very simple man. I don't have much of the training you all sweated and worked hard for, and earned, that you pursued in seminaries, and in the halls of academe... I love, revere, trust, and have complete faith, in God. If that is not enough for others, to have my beliefs, then I will proudly bear that "burden," for all that I am, all that I have, or all that I do, is the result of God's leading...

I rejoice in Rocky's selfless, courageous, sharing of his testimony. Loving Western's, I can say, and totally believe, that Rocky "is one to ride the river with..." I've got your back, Brother. God Bless You and Yours, Rocky.

Maranatha

Watchman2013

P.S. As always, God's Grace, is sufficient for me...

[Justaned]

Justaned - no, I don't care about what Paul said unless it was recorded in the B'rit Hadashah.

Ah but that is not exactly true you listed the men that are your Mentors and if I understand B'rit hadashah they have not mentors, lead only by the scriptures.

[Justaned]

Hey Ed, I was a Christian spirit filled when I was younger, even spoke in tongues, I was Born again. I was even baptized in the Holy Ghost. Then I turned my back on God and later became an atheist, then lived a life of addiction and debauchery just like the Prodigal son. But praise God, years later The lord came back into my life and restored me, delivered me supernaturally from various addictions. How do you explain this? Was I not saved before I backslid?

Rocky
How do you explain it in light of what we have discussed in Hebrews 6 and 10.

You keep telling me I misunderstand these passage but yet they are very clear, they don't contain any play on words, metaphors or any special figures of speech. They simply say what they say. So how do I misunderstand them?

Or

Could it be you misunderstand what it means to be saved? Or could it be you misunderstand what it takes for you to loose that salvation?

Good Morning, Justaned,

I, too, know people like Rocky. They EAT, DRINK, BREATHE, WALK, AND LIVE The Word of God. They Practice The Presence of God, for to them, He is as real, as you or I. They preach Jesus with a love and passion that is a true joy to behold.. Everything they say, write, or do, they've dedicated to serving God, bearing "good fruit."

In reading Hebrews, Chapters 6 & 10, one could almost become so bereft of hope, losing sight of the prize of The High Calling of God, as to become moribund, totally ineffective, and no longer desirous of Life. But God, in His Love, Mercy, Grace, and Kindness, won''t let go of them... They are recipients of the knowledge that God has heard their cries, and as Sovereign, has heard, listened to, and acted upon their confessions, repentance, and appeals for forgiveness and restoration...

Do I have Book, Chapter, and Verse to back this up? Not completely, no, not at this time... Right now, I'm doing something that may be frowned upon- "flying by the seat of my pants," and going by "a wing and a prayer." (This has to be God, because I hate flying, and only look forward to The Rapture.)

in reading Hebrews 11 through 13, as well as other passages in The Word of God, I see the need God has for ministries like Rocky's. "Been there, done that, had the T-shirt, and now have the scars to prove it,' experience is sometimes just what God needs to reach what might be called, "special cases." If you like, think of Rocky, and others like him, as a member of God's Spiritual Special Forces. He, and they, have truly been tested, and proven, in The Cleansing Fire of God's Holiness.

Why would God preserve Rocky, and others, seen as "beyond the pale" by some? The answer is simple. It is not God's desire, or will, that ANY should perish... God's Spiritual Special Forces can reach out to those who may be in circumstances similar to those experienced by Rocky and others, who've been in The Refiner's Fire. The dross of this world has been separated from what was, and now, is...

I can only go by what God puts in my heart, what His Spirit bears witness to, and by what illumination He gives me in His Word... I'm a very simple man. I don't have much of the training you all sweated and worked hard for, and earned, that you pursued in seminaries, and in the halls of academe... I love, revere, trust, and have complete faith, in God. If that is not enough for others, to have my beliefs, then I will proudly bear that "burden," for all that I am, all that I have, or all that I do, is the result of God's leading...

I rejoice in Rocky's selfless, courageous, sharing of his testimony. Loving Western's, I can say, and totally believe, that Rocky "is one to ride the river with..." I've got your back, Brother. God Bless You and Yours, Rocky.

Maranatha

Watchman2013

P.S. As always, God's Grace, is sufficient for me...

I too have lived through much of what Rocky experienced, I have the t-shirt and many scars to prove it. But I realized two things this side of it all. I was never a true Christian before and all through my experience I had boundaries I would not cross, and I often thought of God and His displeasure with me. Now that I'm on this side of it I realize what true Christianity means and I also realize I never left God in those days nor did he ever leave me.

And yes God's grace is sufficient for me!

[Watchman2013]

Good Morning, Everyone,

At the risk of sounding like a Yankee lawyer, I've found something that only could come from God, for I'm certainly not smart enough, on my own, to think of this, or even consider it...

I am blessed with having WORDSearch 10's latest iteration, The Amplified Bible, and of course in hard copy, DARBs. Through all of which, God illuminates things for me, that I cannot do for myself. God, in His Infinite Mercy, Love, Grace, and Kindness, has taken pity on my poor abilities, and made it possible for me to see, understand, and hopefully, share...

I love The Amplified Bible, and always use it, with the Dake software's vast resources. Any conclusions I've drawn, are mine, based upon where The Lord leads me. Any errors are mine- NOT God's. He is Perfect, in all ways, Bless Him...

All that being said, here is what I've found...

Hebrews 6:1-6 (AMP)

Hebrews 6:1-6 (AMP)
1 THEREFORE LET us go on and get past the elementary stage in the teachings and doctrine of Christ (the Messiah), advancing steadily toward the completeness and perfection that belong to spiritual maturity. Let us not again be laying the foundation of repentance and abandonment of dead works (dead formalism) and of the faith [by which you turned] to God,
2 With teachings about purifying, the laying on of hands, the resurrection from the dead, and eternal judgment and punishment. [These are all matters of which you should have been fully aware long, long ago.]
3 If indeed God permits, we will [now] proceed [to advanced teaching].
4 For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,
5 And have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come,
6 If they then deviate from the faith and turn away from their allegiance—[it is impossible] to bring them back to repentance, for (because, while, as long as) they nail upon the cross the Son of God afresh [as far as they are concerned] and are holding [Him] up to contempt and shame and public disgrace.

I warned you, didn't I, that I risked sounding like a Yankee lawyer? Guilty, as charged. HOWEVER, it is instructional, knowing that The Amplified Bible is a literal one-to-one, and thematic, translation of The Holy Scriptures... I hold the KJV, The Amplified, and the NASB in the highest regards, as accuracy and scholarship have proven them to be the best, outside of Hebrew and Greek Interlinear Bibles... The "reading levels" of the KJV, The Amplified, and the NASB are amongst the highest of translations, and are unequaled in quality or followings. Frankly, I don't like any translation level less than these three, though almost all translations can, and do, lead sinners to Christ, and Salvation...

Getting back to for (because, while, as long as), one must note the qualifier put forth. It is relegated to time, and the place that the individual is in. As stipulated, "as long as" may seem extremely "thin," it still is, however, extent. That being the case, I can see how Rocky's experiences, as well as, I dare say, others on this Forum, have skirted the flames of the Lake of Fire, yet remain to serve as valued Servants of God.

IF a backslider does not confess, repent, and ask God of forgiveness, before death, and truly mean it, then they are doomed to the Lake of Fire.

Remember how God has wrestled with some, bargained with others, as to the outcome or disposition of things between God and Man? God always knows the outcome in advance. Why bother? For God to test the resolve of the person He is dealing with. No one can tell me that God is ever surprised when such "contests" are to be had. Issac wrestled with God, and became Israel. Lott tried to save Sodom and Gomorrah, but God already knew how many righteous were there, before Lott opened negotiations... God IS "the house," and no bets, wagers, or contests are a surprise to Him. Remember Job? Satan was, is, and will always be, the perfect definition of "loser." Jesus crushed the head of the snake, Satan, atop Calvary, when He said, "It is finished!"

Anyway, Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ, God has, indeed, made a way... Through the long dark night of the soul, in searching The Scriptures, and Seeking The Face of God, we seek out, and prove our Salvation... It's enough to accept, receive, the Greatest of Gifts from the Hands of God. KNOWING why we're saved, in every particular, is a blessing that makes what Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, did for us, if possible, even sweeter... While in our "earth suits," we can never know, nor appreciate in toto, ALL that God has done for us, is doing now, or will do in the future...

If one were to begin listing all the gifts, blessings, benefits, attributes, and ALL that is God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, an eternity of eternities would not be enough... Suffice it to say, God in Three Persons is due our eternal thanksgiving, worship, praise, love, and all that we will ever be, forever, and ever, Amen...

Where there sometimes seem to be no way to God, because of our foolishness, and with our own understanding we have no hope, we must remember, that God is Ever Faithful, and His Love, Mercy, Grace, and Kindness are everlasting... He said, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you..."

If you've separated yourself from God, get back to Him. Confess all of your sins, truly repent of those sins purposing never to do anything that would separate you from Him, and wholeheartedly ask Him His Forgiveness... The Spirit of the Living God will bare witness of your earnestly Asking Him, Seeking Him, and Knocking on His, Heaven's, Door...

Remember too, that we all have different experiences, skills, talents, and strengths- all of which may be of use in bringing the Lost into the Kingdom of God...

Where some say there is no way, BUT GOD...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[Justaned]

Watchman2013

I tend to disagree I think the wording is very clear. I think the difference is what we called SAVED and what God considers SAVED.

Going back to this passage from your ampliifed. 4 For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,
5 And have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come,
6 If they then deviate from the faith and turn away from their allegiance—[it is impossible] to bring them back to repentance

I think what is key here is allegiance and felt. I think many think they are saved but have failed to make Jesus the allegiance or have felt or exerienced the goodness of the Word.

I know when I was young I went forward on an altar call, it was a very emotional experience, I knew Jesus, I wanted to be good and I didn't want to go to hell. I did everything like everyone else that claimed to be Christian did.

However I never felt the goodness of the word as I do today nor did I place my absolute allegiance in Christ I do today.

Looking back I don't believe I was really saved when I thought I was. I believe God's hand was on me, that it stayed on me but it wasn't until I had done many things I now regret. But it wasn't until I decided it was time to get serious with the God and MAKE JESUS LORD of my life that I believed I got saved.

Today none of the things I did during that time are even a temptation to me today. I feel nothing toward them and I would never consider doing them again because I have the goodness of the word within me.

I think "salvation" is key. I don't think many who think they are saved, who want to be saved have ever come to the place where they placed their allegiance in Christ. That is the key!!!!!!!!!

Since this has occurred in my life I have been privileged to see men, pastors, good pastors, one with as many as 40 years of faithful service to God get saved by placing their total Allegiance in God and tasting for the first time the goodness of the word. They had served, pastored and been faithful but by their own admission had never been saved as they are today.

That is the difference in our view of this passage.

[Rocky]

Hey Ed, I was a Christian spirit filled when I was younger, even spoke in tongues, I was Born again. I was even baptized in the Holy Ghost. Then I turned my back on God and later became an atheist, then lived a life of addiction and debauchery just like the Prodigal son. But praise God, years later The lord came back into my life and restored me, delivered me supernaturally from various addictions. How do you explain this? Was I not saved before I backslid?

Rocky
How do you explain it in light of what we have discussed in Hebrews 6 and 10.

You keep telling me I misunderstand these passage but yet they are very clear, they don't contain any play on words, metaphors or any special figures of speech. They simply say what they say. So how do I misunderstand them?

Or

Could it be you misunderstand what it means to be saved? Or could it be you misunderstand what it takes for you to loose that salvation?

Good Morning, Justaned,

I, too, know people like Rocky. They EAT, DRINK, BREATHE, WALK, AND LIVE The Word of God. They Practice The Presence of God, for to them, He is as real, as you or I. They preach Jesus with a love and passion that is a true joy to behold.. Everything they say, write, or do, they've dedicated to serving God, bearing "good fruit."

In reading Hebrews, Chapters 6 & 10, one could almost become so bereft of hope, losing sight of the prize of The High Calling of God, as to become moribund, totally ineffective, and no longer desirous of Life. But God, in His Love, Mercy, Grace, and Kindness, won''t let go of them... They are recipients of the knowledge that God has heard their cries, and as Sovereign, has heard, listened to, and acted upon their confessions, repentance, and appeals for forgiveness and restoration...

Do I have Book, Chapter, and Verse to back this up? Not completely, no, not at this time... Right now, I'm doing something that may be frowned upon- "flying by the seat of my pants," and going by "a wing and a prayer." (This has to be God, because I hate flying, and only look forward to The Rapture.)

in reading Hebrews 11 through 13, as well as other passages in The Word of God, I see the need God has for ministries like Rocky's. "Been there, done that, had the T-shirt, and now have the scars to prove it,' experience is sometimes just what God needs to reach what might be called, "special cases." If you like, think of Rocky, and others like him, as a member of God's Spiritual Special Forces. He, and they, have truly been tested, and proven, in The Cleansing Fire of God's Holiness.

Why would God preserve Rocky, and others, seen as "beyond the pale" by some? The answer is simple. It is not God's desire, or will, that ANY should perish... God's Spiritual Special Forces can reach out to those who may be in circumstances similar to those experienced by Rocky and others, who've been in The Refiner's Fire. The dross of this world has been separated from what was, and now, is...

I can only go by what God puts in my heart, what His Spirit bears witness to, and by what illumination He gives me in His Word... I'm a very simple man. I don't have much of the training you all sweated and worked hard for, and earned, that you pursued in seminaries, and in the halls of academe... I love, revere, trust, and have complete faith, in God. If that is not enough for others, to have my beliefs, then I will proudly bear that "burden," for all that I am, all that I have, or all that I do, is the result of God's leading...

I rejoice in Rocky's selfless, courageous, sharing of his testimony. Loving Western's, I can say, and totally believe, that Rocky "is one to ride the river with..." I've got your back, Brother. God Bless You and Yours, Rocky.

Maranatha

Watchman2013

P.S. As always, God's Grace, is sufficient for me...

Brother this was very touching of you to write this. I appreciate the compliments and the acknowledgment of what God has done in my life. . God bless brother..

[Justaned]

Rocky
Please don't think I was miminizing or dismissing your story or your experience. I do appreciate you sharing it and seriously I'm trying to reconcile what you are saying to what I believe scripture is saying.

I can accept I'm not interpreting scripture correctly but I need someone to do more that say your wrong or my experience proves you wrong. I need to see where in both these passages I failed to grasp the correct meaning of what is being said.

As I said in the other thread. I fail to understand how a God created NEW BEING would intentional set about to sin.

Let me ask you this could you right now go out and really sin? I don't mean to slip and mess up but rather say to yourself (assumeing you are married) okay today I going out to find someone to commit adultery with and then actually do it.

I know I can't.

So I wonder how does a person get from saved to that point. If you can shed any light on it I would love to hear it.

Again I'm not saying you can't sin or that you are sinless. We all stumble and fall. I saying you intentionally set out to sin.

[frad70]

By B'rit Hadashah I mean the 27 books of the New Testament.