Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ If God does NOT have a body then how did he sit, wear clothes and have hair on His head?

[patrissimo]

If God has a body, lives on a planet with cities and streets, and eats food, then does He also need to relieve Himself? Are there celestial sewers on the planet heaven?

[bibleman]

It's interesting that you mention seeing God face to face.

"We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known." - I. Cor. 13:12

This is what St. Thomas and myself are talking about.

Not really... From what you have told me, you are NOT talking about seeing through a glass darkly at all! According to you and Aquinas there is NO God to see visually (glass dark or not).

And think about it, your view of God places man ABOVE God!

Man with a body can go from one place to another - God cannot.
Man with a body can work and exercise - God cannot.
Man with a body has eyes to see - God cannot.
Man with a body has a tongue to tase food - God cannot.
Man with a body has ears to hear beautiful music - God cannot.
Man with a body can embrace and hug the love of his life - God cannot.

Yeah seems like you and Aquinas have a very limited God.

Quite the contrary! Our God is the Infinite Fulness of Being. Knowing God is somewhat like looking at the sun. The blindness comes not from the sun not being there but from the overwhelming brightness.

Do you believe that God can go from one place to another?

No. He is everywhere present and fills all things. He has no need to move from place to place.

So you are saying that God lied when He said this!

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

And you also think that Jesus (who is God) lied when He said this!

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

I've answered these questions before. God is not lying; rather, you are misinterpreting these texts to fit your assumptions which happen to be Epicurean in tendency.

Now I don't interpret at all but just to use your language...

OK How would you interpret these word sin this passage?

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

What does "I will go down now" mean?

[patrissimo]

Not really... From what you have told me, you are NOT talking about seeing through a glass darkly at all! According to you and Aquinas there is NO God to see visually (glass dark or not).

And think about it, your view of God places man ABOVE God!

Man with a body can go from one place to another - God cannot.
Man with a body can work and exercise - God cannot.
Man with a body has eyes to see - God cannot.
Man with a body has a tongue to tase food - God cannot.
Man with a body has ears to hear beautiful music - God cannot.
Man with a body can embrace and hug the love of his life - God cannot.

Yeah seems like you and Aquinas have a very limited God.

Quite the contrary! Our God is the Infinite Fulness of Being. Knowing God is somewhat like looking at the sun. The blindness comes not from the sun not being there but from the overwhelming brightness.

Do you believe that God can go from one place to another?

No. He is everywhere present and fills all things. He has no need to move from place to place.

So you are saying that God lied when He said this!

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

And you also think that Jesus (who is God) lied when He said this!

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

I've answered these questions before. God is not lying; rather, you are misinterpreting these texts to fit your assumptions which happen to be Epicurean in tendency.

Now I don't interpret at all but just to use your language...

OK How would you interpret these word sin this passage?

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

What does "I will go down now" mean?

Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention.

[Ironman]

"What does "I will go down now" mean?

Patrissimo replied; Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention."

Ahhhhhhhhhhha ...........................

[bibleman]

Quite the contrary! Our God is the Infinite Fulness of Being. Knowing God is somewhat like looking at the sun. The blindness comes not from the sun not being there but from the overwhelming brightness.

Do you believe that God can go from one place to another?

No. He is everywhere present and fills all things. He has no need to move from place to place.

So you are saying that God lied when He said this!

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

And you also think that Jesus (who is God) lied when He said this!

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

I've answered these questions before. God is not lying; rather, you are misinterpreting these texts to fit your assumptions which happen to be Epicurean in tendency.

Now I don't interpret at all but just to use your language...

OK How would you interpret these word sin this passage?

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

What does "I will go down now" mean?

Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention.

Let's see the verse said: "I will go down now"

You say that means: God is giving that situation special attention.

If you placed an order at a restaurant and the menu said: Spaghetti and Meatballs!
You ordered it.
They bring you "Barbecued Chicken and Rice."

Would you say they got your order right or wrong?

[bibleman]

"What does "I will go down now" mean?

Patrissimo replied; Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention."

Ahhhhhhhhhhha ...........................

I think either Patrissimo has a reading comprehension problem or else he is being dishonest.

Because everybody that can read and has half a brain knows what "I will go down now" means.

He would NOT say the same things about any other book that he reads, ONLY the Bible because it does NOT fit his man-made opinions, that have been inspired by the Devil to cause ignorance and doubt of the Word of God.

[patrissimo]

"What does "I will go down now" mean?

Patrissimo replied; Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention."

Ahhhhhhhhhhha ...........................

I think either Patrissimo has a reading comprehension problem or else he is being dishonest.

Because everybody that can read and has half a brain knows what "I will go down now" means.

He would NOT say the same things about any other book that he reads, ONLY the Bible because it does NOT fit his man-made opinions, that have been inspired by the Devil to cause ignorance and doubt of the Word of God.

Well...I am sure you would agree that the Bible is not just any book. Of course, I don't treat it as such! I have questioned your reading comprehension also since you bring it up. You have argued that Henry Thiessen supports your contention that Dake is not a tri-theist but Thiessen's doctrine on these matters is the same as mine. I can easily demonstrate this.

[bibleman]

"What does "I will go down now" mean?

Patrissimo replied; Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention."

Ahhhhhhhhhhha ...........................

I think either Patrissimo has a reading comprehension problem or else he is being dishonest.

Because everybody that can read and has half a brain knows what "I will go down now" means.

He would NOT say the same things about any other book that he reads, ONLY the Bible because it does NOT fit his man-made opinions, that have been inspired by the Devil to cause ignorance and doubt of the Word of God.

Well...I am sure you would agree that the Bible is not just any book. Of course, I don't treat it as such! I have questioned your reading comprehension also since you bring it up. You have argued that Henry Thiessen supports your contention that Dake is not a tri-theist but Thiessen's doctrine on these matters is the same as mine. I can easily demonstrate this.

You say that you "can easily demonstrate this!"

Acting as you do in your interpretation of the Bible... I would say you just said: "demonstration is impossible and I am unable to do this."

[patrissimo]

"What does "I will go down now" mean?

Patrissimo replied; Yes, you do interpret.

I suspect it means God is giving that situation special attention."

Ahhhhhhhhhhha ...........................

I think either Patrissimo has a reading comprehension problem or else he is being dishonest.

Because everybody that can read and has half a brain knows what "I will go down now" means.

He would NOT say the same things about any other book that he reads, ONLY the Bible because it does NOT fit his man-made opinions, that have been inspired by the Devil to cause ignorance and doubt of the Word of God.

Well...I am sure you would agree that the Bible is not just any book. Of course, I don't treat it as such! I have questioned your reading comprehension also since you bring it up. You have argued that Henry Thiessen supports your contention that Dake is not a tri-theist but Thiessen's doctrine on these matters is the same as mine. I can easily demonstrate this.

You say that you "can easily demonstrate this!"

Acting as you do in your interpretation of the Bible... I would say you just said: "demonstration is impossible and I am unable to do this."

I will step up and prove my assertion. I have a somewhat busy schedule today, but I can use a standard Catholic theology manual such as Ludwig Ott's "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" and show that regarding the doctrine of God, Thiessen is in more or less perfect agreement. If I am as wrong as you say and if I am in agreement with Thiessen, then Thiessen is also as wrong as you say and does not support Dake's position. Dake and Thiessen define terms such as "Divine Essence" or "Omniscience" in radically different ways to the point of being contrary.

[Polemique]

Hello Gents: New here, thank you for allowing me to join. I heard about God has a body. I would ask if everyone believes in the Holy Bible. Assuming the answer is 'Yes", do you believe in the Holy Trinity and assuming the answer is "Yes", you believe Elohim, Adonai, Y'Shua, and this same Holy Trinity are this same God in the OT and NT? Assuming this is "Yes", Was the Son of God incarnate subjected to created birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension, and sits at the right hand of the Father? Assuming "Yes" as most Christians would adhere to this Tradition handed down to faithful men, does this same Holy Trinity godhead then have two bodies with Christ having a set of hands (to sit next to the father) and also the Father having a set of hands or have our righteous forefathers portrayed to us that God the Father is infinite and not defined by His creation? It seems some would confine the Holy Trinity to the confines of finite human capacity, that man is able to comprehend the infinite consuming fire without dying. Apostle Paul said that and we know that Apostle John the Revelator portrayed this as well. That we cannot fully translate infinite things to mortal understanding.

Does the Holy Spirit then also have a body like the Father and the Son, since they are One Godhead? We dimly see and understand, as though in a mirror. Then, we shall see fully as He does. Bodies are material and fallen, complex. Complexity is of that which is created. Complexity is also of the fallen nature pertaining to decay, oxidation, lustful reproduction and bloody childbirth, fluid, pathologies, hate, emotion. All of these are of the fallen nature not indicative of Edenic Paradise. This image of the Holy Trinity of man in paradise could not be the same as the fallen nature. We have fragmented fallen knowledge and understanding.

Many different questions leading to one:

ultimately, why must the Father have an incarnate body when He is only temporally incarnate? ie, birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension.

He is temporarily incarnate because time is a constraint of fallen nature. I do not confound any person, or essence, of the Holy Trinity. He is eternally the Father, eternally the Son, and eternally the Holy Spirit---ONE GOD.....Now, I do not understand this. I can describe it, but not explain it. This is what the Hebrews and early Christians knew as a mystery. The mystery of the Holy Trinity: Knowable, yes, Audible, yes. Visible, No. There are visible and invisible natures observed in creation. Are these why we know there are corporeal and incorporeal bodies?

Why, then, do angels have incorporeal bodies and can also possess human forms of body? (entertaining angels unaware) Yet, there are still different types of angels as well. We cannot observe with our eyes forces holding earth in place and rotating the heavens around earth. We know it happens but no one can explain the CAUSE. we can describe them in a limited manner.

Why then would the Father have a materialistic, constrained type of body? A body, by its very essence and nature, is not infinite, right? How can a body be infinite everywhere filling all things and in every place?

So, it seems to me that the Son has the resurrected body that moves through walls and matter but while the incarnate or resurrected Son God was here amongst the disciples (and the world), the Eternal Father was not displaced into the incarnate, iow, one did not leave the other. No! The eternal Father remained everywhere and in all places because the entirety of the Godhead is immovable and bodiless, not subjected to its creation but transcendent. Only in the Son, was the Holy Trinity incarnate. WHY? Because our perception of the godhead does not change the actuality, that INCARNATE, from our perspective, is not separating the unity of the Trinity. Our mortal and finite understanding should not constrain the godhead. Otherwise, explain how the entirety of the Holy Trinity displaced omnipresence and did not obliterate the disciples being only in the body of the Son God?

So it seems, The God Son showed to us in the Gospels that though in His incarnation He assumed a corporeal body, just as Hebrews tells us that angels can and do assume these materially-constrained bodies, He does after the Resurrection portray the affiliation of that incorporeal body at the same time. To us, though, because of our limited perception and confounded material bodies He appeared only or simply corporeal, but He can be both? When incarnate before the Resurrection, He only appeared to us limited in body, but walked on Water, transcended the confines of material by multiplying matter, etc. Fully God and fully man. God is not parts, parts are not persons as we perceive fallen persons. So, the incarnate body is not a fragment, or part. God never stopped being God to be also incarnate, right? Remember, our perception and finite understanding does. not obligate God.

I hope this is not too long. Forgive me for any redundancy. If it is I will amend. Thank you.